Hello list members, can you check this? Is this [0] really a campaign against RISC-V, started by ARM? Arguments are very strange. I can't believe it, get the hint from fefes well-known blog [1] Regards, Hagen [0] https://riscv-basics.com/ [1] http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a5bda6b9 [german]
FUD! Lets fud back! On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Hagen SANKOWSKI <hsank@posteo.de> wrote:
Hello list members,
can you check this? Is this [0] really a campaign against RISC-V, started by ARM? Arguments are very strange.
I can't believe it, get the hint from fefes well-known blog [1]
Regards, Hagen
[0] https://riscv-basics.com/ [1] http://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a5bda6b9 [german] _______________________________________________ Libre-silicon-devel mailing list Libre-silicon-devel@list.libresilicon.com http://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libre-silicon-devel
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 8:34 PM, ludwig jaffe <ludwig.jaffe@gmail.com> wrote:
FUD!
Lets fud back!
.. how?? and at what cost? "an eye for an eye" actually means, "if you take an eye, yours will be taken". most people sadly fail to understand that and use it as justification for action that results in escalating retaliation and ultimately wars. i believe that a better strategy is to make products that people who know their shit will want to buy. thanks to people now *knowing* that there are spying back-door co-processors in the computers that they're buying, they *will* jump at the opportunity to buy ones that are sold as being "without spying backdoors" if they're available... ... but if you're running lying deceptive underhanded smear-tactics campaigns there's actually a good chance that those people will look at your products and go "wtf?? i can't trust these people *either*, they're liars as well!!!" l.
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton schreef op ma 09-07-2018 om 21:33 [+0100]:
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 8:34 PM, ludwig jaffe <ludwig.jaffe@gmail.com> wrote:
i believe that a better strategy is to make products that people who know their shit will want to buy. thanks to people now *knowing* that there are spying back-door co-processors in the computers that they're buying, they *will* jump at the opportunity to buy ones that are sold as being "without spying backdoors" if they're available...
... but if you're running lying deceptive underhanded smear-tactics campaigns there's actually a good chance that those people will look at your products and go "wtf?? i can't trust these people *either*, they're liars as well!!!"
l.
Fully agree, to me the best way to react is just to keep on doing what you are doing and make the RISC-V ecosystem better; not trying to let you be dragged into their campaign/war. One of the reasons that Linux has won the UNIX war is that you had companies like Red Hat and projects like Slackware and Debian that just kept on making the Linux ecosystem better. And they did not led them be dragged into FUD campaigns started by the big UNIX vendors of that time like SUN, HP, IBM, SCO, ... You know what Mahatma Gandhi has said: First they ignore, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Seems we have already entered the fight phase. greets, Staf.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:09 PM, Staf Verhaegen <staf@fibraservi.eu> wrote:
You know what Mahatma Gandhi has said: First they ignore, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Seems we have already entered the fight phase.
oh they knew that already. ARM went into overdrive a *long* time ago. the top engineers at IIT Madras were offered USD $24 million dollar bribes^Wsalaries^Wbribes to join ARM. l.
On Tuesday, 10 July 2018 5:13:10 AM HKT Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 10:09 PM, Staf Verhaegen <staf@fibraservi.eu> wrote:
You know what Mahatma Gandhi has said: First they ignore, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Seems we have already entered the fight phase.
oh they knew that already. ARM went into overdrive a *long* time ago. the top engineers at IIT Madras were offered USD $24 million dollar bribes^Wsalaries^Wbribes to join ARM. And apparently AMD is giving us competition right now in producing back door free CPUs in China: https://www.golem.de/news/hygon-dhyana-china-baut-cpus-mit-amds-zen-technik-...
We have to work faster I think... Cheers David
Hello. On 07/10/2018 07:36 AM, David Lanzendörfer wrote:
And apparently AMD is giving us competition right now in producing back door free CPUs in China: https://www.golem.de/news/hygon-dhyana-china-baut-cpus-mit-amds-zen-technik-...
Well, from a verification point of view, you can not claim that a CPU is bug- and/or back-door free. By formal verification techniques we can assure, that the CPU has a dedicated property like "reacting 3 clock cycles after reset is released". Getting closer to your target, we would have to fully verify the whole CPU design by 100%. That is what Formal Verification is for. And BTW, the best effort in that direction for RISC-V Clifford already did - he focus' his activities to verification [0] and published the stuff on github [1] We need LibreSilicon here even more, 'cause only in that way with the right tools, costumers can verify that we did not put in new hidden "features" while manufacturing. Please check the classic paper from Ken Thompson [2] Regards, Hagen. [0] https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8768-end-to-end_formal_isa_verification_of_risc-... [1] https://github.com/cliffordwolf/riscv-formal [2[ https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=358198.358210
participants (5)
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David Lanzendörfer -
Hagen SANKOWSKI -
ludwig jaffe -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
Staf Verhaegen