From cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com Sat Feb 1 12:38:31 2020 From: cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com (Christoph Maier) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:38:31 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Lost at FOSDEM Message-ID: Hi all, as hardware guy, I'm kind of lost in the FOSDEM maze, particularly because the Open Hardware room is full and I can't get in. Anyone else around? tatzelbrumm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn Sat Feb 1 13:01:45 2020 From: david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2020 20:01:45 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Lost at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39545248.RezAsAspNy@dizzy-7> Hi > as hardware guy, I'm kind of lost in the FOSDEM maze, particularly because > the Open Hardware room is full and I can't get in. > Anyone else around? Look for Staf or Michiel, they're anyway interested into talking about LibreSilicon and they can maybe introduce to you the EU commission. Cheers David -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat Feb 1 13:05:20 2020 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:05:20 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Lost at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Saturday, February 1, 2020, Christoph Maier < cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > as hardware guy, I'm kind of lost in the FOSDEM maze, > enormous isn't it > particularly because the Open Hardware room is full and I can't get in. > Anyone else around? > yes i am however in city centre just getting lunch, will be in in around an hour. email me direct or see https://libre-riscv.org/fosdem_2020/ where people for libresoc will be -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat Feb 1 13:29:37 2020 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 12:29:37 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Lost at FOSDEM In-Reply-To: <39545248.RezAsAspNy@dizzy-7> References: <39545248.RezAsAspNy@dizzy-7> Message-ID: On Saturday, February 1, 2020, David Lanzend?rfer < david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn> wrote: > Hi > > as hardware guy, I'm kind of lost in the FOSDEM maze, particularly > because > > the Open Hardware room is full and I can't get in. > > Anyone else around? > Look for Staf or Michiel, they're anyway interested into talking about > LibreSilicon and they can maybe introduce to you the EU commission. staf is having difficulties getting email access. michiel i am arranging a slot to meet him this afternoon. likely 1500. https://libre-riscv.org/fosdem_2020/ l. -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsank at posteo.de Sun Feb 2 16:38:29 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 16:38:29 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Equipment Message-ID: Today in our weekly Mumble session we talked about equipment, we had to add into our next clean room occasionally.. Here are the sites I am aware of - or still remember from a talk with Peter at the last congress. https://www.fabsurplus.com/sdi_catalog/home.do https://www.used-line.com/list-semiconductor-and-pcb/clean-room-equipment https://www.4semi.com/ Even Ebay.com has an own category for clean room equipment under Business & Industrial > CNC, Metalworking & Manufacturing > Semiconductor & PCB Manufacturing Equipment > Cleanroom Equipment Regards, Hagen. -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon Feb 3 11:27:01 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 18:27:01 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] AMKOR in Porto, Portugal Message-ID: <1846533.lP1PJWzqj6@dizzy-7> Hi I just got feedback from AMKOR and it seems that the factory line in Porto does only do packaging and doesn't do front end manufacturing anymore. So I think we really better check for labs like the one we've looked at yesterday[1], which are at least partially equipped to perform the FEOL steps. At least we now know that there's a place where we can package it xD Cheers David [1] https://www.cenimat.fct.unl.pt/lab-facilities/clean-room-lab[1] -------- [1] https://www.cenimat.fct.unl.pt/lab-facilities/clean-room-lab -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From christoph.maier at ieee.org Mon Feb 3 11:30:27 2020 From: christoph.maier at ieee.org (Christoph Maier) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 11:30:27 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] AMKOR in Porto, Portugal In-Reply-To: <1846533.lP1PJWzqj6@dizzy-7> References: <1846533.lP1PJWzqj6@dizzy-7> Message-ID: The lab in the link looks like a good place for CMOS post-processing, not necessarily for CMOD fabrication, or am I wrong? On Mon, Feb 3, 2020, 11:27 David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > Hi > > I just got feedback from AMKOR and it seems that the factory line in Porto > > does only do packaging and doesn't do front end manufacturing anymore. > > So I think we really better check for labs like the one we've looked at > > yesterday[1], which are at least partially equipped to perform the FEOL > steps. > > > > At least we now know that there's a place where we can package it xD > > > > Cheers > > David > > > > [1] https://www.cenimat.fct.unl.pt/lab-facilities/clean-room-lab > > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon Feb 3 11:34:39 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2020 18:34:39 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] AMKOR in Porto, Portugal In-Reply-To: References: <1846533.lP1PJWzqj6@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <5445139.uqCoZ8aTtY@dizzy-7> Hi > The lab in the link looks like a good place for CMOS post-processing, not > necessarily for CMOD fabrication, or am I wrong? It's ISO 7 and they already have part of the equipment. So it's pretty much a clean room alright. Since I'm there anyway in three weeks, I can go to them and discuss with them, whether they'd be willing to get more equipment sponsored from the EU, and if they agree, I'll check with NLNet, on how we can redirect those EU funds into this University lab :-) Cheers -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Thu Feb 6 13:39:32 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 20:39:32 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Portugal, Clean room, HOLY SHIT!!! O_O Message-ID: <4351346.jX0dMl02iz@dizzy-7> Hello folks I've just been pointed to this OpenAccess lab in Braga: https://lims.inl.int/WebForms/Equipment/EquipmentList.aspx That's more advanced than HKUST!!! And it has the same access conditions AS HKUST!! Seems not only my personal life is getting hotter, but also the lab itself! :D -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Feb 9 13:51:03 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 20:51:03 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Mumble, quick reminder for my fellow nerds: Today is Sunday Message-ID: <2800963.ee5Cc22X2T@dizzy-7> Hi everyone I'm idling here around in Mumble. Quick reminder: Today is Sunday And in 10 minutes it's 9pm HKT ;-) -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Feb 16 13:02:36 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 20:02:36 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Mumble, in an hour Message-ID: <2942618.IW94Ra7k5r@dizzy-7> Hi folks Please don't forget, that we've got a Mumble session in less than an hour. Cheers -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Feb 23 17:42:46 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 00:42:46 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography Message-ID: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> Hi I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and an UV light source for exposure: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785 There are actually parts available: http://www.ti.com/product/DLP9500UV http://www.ti.com/product/DLP9000XUV For those chips, the UV wave length would be around 360nm The price on Mouser is 8888 USD, so around 9 thousand USD The chip is exactly made for mask less lithography systems as the one I wanna build, it's even mentioned in the data sheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlp9500uv.pdf By optimizing the aperture of the lens system, this means that one could perfectly fine produce feature sizes down to 150 nm or so, maybe even smaller. I wonder, whether we should make a gofundme campaign for buying the required second hand stepper and this chip... Hmm. Also. Since this chip is super expensive, we will need to *really* make sure, that there's no mistake in the PCB, because we only have one attempt. Cheers -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From staf at fibraservi.eu Sun Feb 23 18:06:28 2020 From: staf at fibraservi.eu (Staf Verhaegen) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:06:28 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <1be6c5c49d72fa899211d6a0708fcb9c5ebd0e2f.camel@fibraservi.eu> David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > HiI'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and an UVlight source for exposure:https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785 Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ greets, Staf. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pavel at noa-labs.com Sun Feb 23 18:18:52 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 20:18:52 +0300 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <1be6c5c49d72fa899211d6a0708fcb9c5ebd0e2f.camel@fibraservi.eu> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <1be6c5c49d72fa899211d6a0708fcb9c5ebd0e2f.camel@fibraservi.eu> Message-ID: Few ideas from me, If you are going to stick with 360nm light for now, regular fused silica should not absorbing it that much. DUV litho needs 200w+ light sources because their optics is way more massive and more complex. Have you thought of making something like a microled matrix? Getting 50w from it onto the wafer with liquid cooling, and simple optics should be real. On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Staf Verhaegen wrote: > David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > > Hi > > I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and an UV > > light source for exposure: > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785 > > > Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: > http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ > > greets, > Staf. > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Feb 23 18:25:39 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 01:25:39 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <1be6c5c49d72fa899211d6a0708fcb9c5ebd0e2f.camel@fibraservi.eu> Message-ID: <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> Hi I like the idea. Some researchers apparently have already tried it out and it's feasible: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1942636?ver=pdfcov&journalCode=apl If a UV microLED matrix is less expensive than a DMD device, I certainly will go for it! Thanks so much for the tip! Do you have any suggestions on components suitable for that task? Cheers -lev On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:18:52 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > Few ideas from me, > > If you are going to stick with 360nm light for now, regular fused silica > should not absorbing it that much. DUV litho needs 200w+ light sources > because their optics is way more massive and more complex. > > Have you thought of making something like a microled matrix? Getting 50w > from it onto the wafer with liquid cooling, and simple optics should be > real. > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > > > > Hi > > > > I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and an UV > > > > light source for exposure: > > > > > > > -illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>> > > > e-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>https://w > > ww.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illumina > > tion-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785> > > Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: > > http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ > > > > greets, > > Staf. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From pavel at noa-labs.com Sun Feb 23 18:38:11 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 20:38:11 +0300 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <1be6c5c49d72fa899211d6a0708fcb9c5ebd0e2f.camel@fibraservi.eu> <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> Message-ID: There are a number of microled startups that are still labs scale. Growing an AlInGaN instead of GaN + MQW might be a challenge, or it might be not. The cost of custom run will from them will be interesting to know. On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:25 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi > I like the idea. > Some researchers apparently have already tried it out and it's feasible: > https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1942636?ver=pdfcov&journalCode=apl > > If a UV microLED matrix is less expensive than a DMD device, I certainly will > go for it! > > Thanks so much for the tip! > > Do you have any suggestions on components suitable for that task? > > Cheers > -lev > > On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:18:52 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > > Few ideas from me, > > > > If you are going to stick with 360nm light for now, regular fused silica > > should not absorbing it that much. DUV litho needs 200w+ light sources > > because their optics is way more massive and more complex. > > > > Have you thought of making something like a microled matrix? Getting 50w > > from it onto the wafer with liquid cooling, and simple optics should be > > real. > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and an UV > > > > > > light source for exposure: > > > > > > > > > > > -illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>> > > > > > e-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>https://w > > > ww.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illumina > > > tion-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785> > > > Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: > > > http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ > > > > > > greets, > > > Staf. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Feb 23 18:39:33 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 01:39:33 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> Hi What would be nice, would be EUV LEDs, so that we can have even better feature sizes. If we already go customized, why not directly EUV? :-) -lev On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:38:11 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > There are a number of microled startups that are still labs scale. > Growing an AlInGaN instead of GaN + MQW might be a challenge, or it > might be not. The cost of custom run will from them will be > interesting to know. > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:25 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > wrote: > > Hi > > I like the idea. > > Some researchers apparently have already tried it out and it's feasible: > > https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1942636?ver=pdfcov&journalCode > > =apl > > > > If a UV microLED matrix is less expensive than a DMD device, I certainly > > will go for it! > > > > Thanks so much for the tip! > > > > Do you have any suggestions on components suitable for that task? > > > > Cheers > > -lev > > > > On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:18:52 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > > > Few ideas from me, > > > > > > If you are going to stick with 360nm light for now, regular fused silica > > > should not absorbing it that much. DUV litho needs 200w+ light sources > > > because their optics is way more massive and more complex. > > > > > > Have you thought of making something like a microled matrix? Getting 50w > > > from it onto the wafer with liquid cooling, and simple optics should be > > > real. > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > > David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and > > > > an UV > > > > > > > > light source for exposure: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -the > > > > -illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>> > > > > > > > > > > > f-th > > > > e-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>https > > > > ://w > > > > ww.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illu > > > > mina > > > > tion-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785> > > > > > > > > Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: > > > > http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From staf at fibraservi.eu Sun Feb 23 18:42:25 2020 From: staf at fibraservi.eu (Staf Verhaegen) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:42:25 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> Message-ID: David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 01:39 [+0800]: > Hi > What would be nice, would be EUV LEDs, so that we can have even better > feature sizes. > If we already go customized, why not directly EUV? :-) Be aware that EUV lithography needs to be done in near vacuum. Staf. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pavel at noa-labs.com Sun Feb 23 18:50:07 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 20:50:07 +0300 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <3665513.ksHcfjgHfK@dizzy-7> <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> Message-ID: David, You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on similar resist chemistry and vacuum. On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi > What would be nice, would be EUV LEDs, so that we can have even better > feature sizes. > If we already go customized, why not directly EUV? :-) > > -lev > > On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:38:11 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > > There are a number of microled startups that are still labs scale. > > Growing an AlInGaN instead of GaN + MQW might be a challenge, or it > > might be not. The cost of custom run will from them will be > > interesting to know. > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:25 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > I like the idea. > > > Some researchers apparently have already tried it out and it's feasible: > > > https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1942636?ver=pdfcov&journalCode > > > =apl > > > > > > If a UV microLED matrix is less expensive than a DMD device, I certainly > > > will go for it! > > > > > > Thanks so much for the tip! > > > > > > Do you have any suggestions on components suitable for that task? > > > > > > Cheers > > > -lev > > > > > > On Monday, 24 February 2020 1:18:52 AM HKT Pavel Nikulin wrote: > > > > Few ideas from me, > > > > > > > > If you are going to stick with 360nm light for now, regular fused silica > > > > should not absorbing it that much. DUV litho needs 200w+ light sources > > > > because their optics is way more massive and more complex. > > > > > > > > Have you thought of making something like a microled matrix? Getting 50w > > > > from it onto the wafer with liquid cooling, and simple optics should be > > > > real. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:06 PM Staf Verhaegen > wrote: > > > > > David Lanzend?rfer schreef op ma 24-02-2020 om 00:42 [+0800]: > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > I'm apparently not the first one with the idea to use a DMD chip and > > > > > an UV > > > > > > > > > > light source for exposure: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -the > > > > > -illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > f-th > > > > > e-illumination-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785>https > > > > > ://w > > > > > ww.researchgate.net/figure/Layout-for-UV-based-DMD-system-If-the-illu > > > > > mina > > > > > tion-is-in-the-UV-spectrum-then-it-must_fig4_50395785> > > > > > > > > > > Also Sam Zeloof has made his own chip with a DLP projector: > > > > > http://sam.zeloof.xyz/maskless-photolithography/ > > > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon Feb 24 07:43:35 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 14:43:35 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> Hi So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very low pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes of 50nm or so. It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. As kind of a side quest :-) -lev > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: