From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed Jan 1 00:28:29 2020 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 23:28:29 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7> Message-ID: (removing lots of unnecessary ccs, particularly the FOSDEM visitor list) On 12/31/19, Marcin Jakubowski wrote: > Luke, any thoughts on you stepping up and coordinating the maskless stepper > module of this crazy evolution? as we (privately) discussed yesterday, there are 4 levels of NDAs: HDL tools, VLSI tools, Cell Libraries and Foudries. i'm waaay overloaded by dealing with level 1 heavily and interacting with people at level 2 and 3. david and the libre-silicon team are dealing with level *4* heavily, level 3 in a big way, and interacting with people at levels 2 and 1. they're the best people for this. l. From marcin at opensourceecology.org Wed Jan 1 00:01:03 2020 From: marcin at opensourceecology.org (Marcin Jakubowski) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:01:03 -0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7> References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7> Message-ID: That's a great idea if we can coordinate that - if there are more people involved. The project for the 5 Project Days of the 9 day event is a Raspberry Pi Film Studio, which will fill all that time already. But if a bunch of people want to join, then we can do both - otherwise we'd need to choose one or the other. That is above our pay grade as the curriculum is tightly defined already with less ambitious builds, though still exciting for the novice or rapid learner. If we have the higher pay grade people join from FOSDEM, this can happen. Luke, any thoughts on you stepping up and coordinating the maskless stepper module of this crazy evolution? Marcin On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:43 AM David Lanzend?rfer < leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > Hi > My idea was to use an LCD plus a lens system in order to build a mask less > stepper unit for manufacturing semiconductors. > This way the costs for the mask sets would fall away and you would suddenly > be able to provide something like a pooling service for semiconductors. > > What do you think? > > Something worth combining your brain power over in those said 9 days? > > Cheers > -lev > > On Tuesday, 31 December 2019 4:42:10 PM HKT Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > wrote: > > apologies for the cross-list post, the topic is very likely to be of > direct > > or indirect interest, please do share elsewhere, however for questions > > please do reach out directly to Marcin from OSE rather than crosspost > > replies! > > > > the OpenSourceEcology Project is running a hands-on real-time > collaboration > > and training course for 9 days that happens to have one of its camps in > > Ghent, Belgium, only around an hour by train away from FOSDEM and running > > up to overlap with FOSDEM only on its last 2 days, Feb 1st and 2nd, 2020. > > > > https://www.opensourceecology.org/steam-camp-january-2020/ > > > > Marcin's Ted Talk is here: > > > https://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski_open_sourced_blueprints_for_civi > > lization?language=en > > > > it is the beginning of a practical real-world bootstrap process for a > > modern civilisation and actually uses and puts into use everything that > we > > love about FOSS and FOSH. > > > > participants will get to actually *make* a 3D Printer, a CNC milling > > machine, then use those to fabricate an Arduino PCB which... you get the > > idea. a battery operated welder will also be one of the hands-on > projects. > > > > Alasdair, an idea just occurred to me: can we discuss privately, they are > > doing "remote" collaboration: is there room / time for OSE to book a > > workshop by remote link, for two reasons: one in case FOSDEM attendees > are > > interested to see what is going on, but secondly, if anyone who attends > > STEAM would like to keep in touch whilst attending FOSDEM? Can we discuss > > off-list(s)? > > > > best, > > > > l. -- *Full Disclosure:* OSE works openly. All conversations in this email are intended to be transparent and subject to sharing, with due respect. OSE does not sign NDAs in order to promote collaboration. All of our work is libre or open source. If you are discussing potential hardware development collaboration, your work must also be open source pursuant to the Open Source Hardware Association definition . See Global Village Construction Set TED Talk . See latest build of Seed Eco-Home . Subscribe as a True Fan . See OSE Facebook for updates or join the discussion at the OSE Workshops FB Page . Subscribe to monthly update OSEmail . Donate to our 501(c)3 . OSE work is an ambitious volunteer project. Please consider joining as a dedicated OSE Developer . Marcin Jakubowski, Ph.D. Executive Director Open Source Ecology http://opensourceecology.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From whygee at f-cpu.org Wed Jan 1 00:53:18 2020 From: whygee at f-cpu.org (whygee at f-cpu.org) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 00:53:18 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [libre-riscv-dev] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7>

Message-ID: Happy new year everybody ! On 2020-01-01 00:28, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > On 12/31/19, Marcin Jakubowski wrote: > >> Luke, any thoughts on you stepping up and coordinating the maskless >> stepper >> module of this crazy evolution? > > as we (privately) discussed yesterday, there are 4 levels of NDAs: HDL > tools, VLSI tools, Cell Libraries and Foudries. > > i'm waaay overloaded by dealing with level 1 heavily and interacting > with people at level 2 and 3. > > david and the libre-silicon team are dealing with level *4* heavily, > level 3 in a big way, and interacting with people at levels 2 and 1. > they're the best people for this. So who should I ask for help with 3 and 4 ? My microcontroller design is progressing well, I'm getting down to individual cells and I bootstrapped the design with ProASIC3 FPGA cells but without precharacterised cell libraries and other silicon-proven information, I can not estimate the timings. Not to mention that things like SRAM arrays are a whole new territory... Thanks for letting me discover about libresilicon ! > l. yg From marcin at opensourceecology.org Wed Jan 1 00:58:41 2020 From: marcin at opensourceecology.org (Marcin Jakubowski) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 17:58:41 -0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7>

Message-ID: David and Crew, This is great - https://libresilicon.com/ What are the current equipment needs that Open Source Ecology can help with?We design and build industrial machines, and on our roadmap for 2022 is production of photovoltaics. How much overlap is there for equipment needs? Great diagrams at https://download.libresilicon.com/process/v1/process_hightech_steps.pdf - thanks for producing that. For some of the machines - Ion implanter ? Plasma etcher ? Sputter engine (Metal deposition) ? Diffusion furnace ? CVD/LPCVD machine ? Exposure unit - are these the high cost items that constitute the majority of the $1B cost of a fab? Or are there other major costs? My starting assumption is that we can reduce the cost of a $1B fab 100x with open source design and collaboration. Are you aware of any viable open source versions of the above equipment? Regarding smart-contract based rewarding of IP contributors in your Lightning Talk - does that mechanism have traction yet? Thanks, Marcin On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 5:28 PM Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > (removing lots of unnecessary ccs, particularly the FOSDEM visitor list) > > On 12/31/19, Marcin Jakubowski wrote: > > > Luke, any thoughts on you stepping up and coordinating the maskless > stepper > > module of this crazy evolution? > > as we (privately) discussed yesterday, there are 4 levels of NDAs: HDL > tools, VLSI tools, Cell Libraries and Foudries. > > i'm waaay overloaded by dealing with level 1 heavily and interacting > with people at level 2 and 3. > > david and the libre-silicon team are dealing with level *4* heavily, > level 3 in a big way, and interacting with people at levels 2 and 1. > they're the best people for this. > > l. > -- *Full Disclosure:* OSE works openly. All conversations in this email are intended to be transparent and subject to sharing, with due respect. OSE does not sign NDAs in order to promote collaboration. All of our work is libre or open source. If you are discussing potential hardware development collaboration, your work must also be open source pursuant to the Open Source Hardware Association definition . See Global Village Construction Set TED Talk . See latest build of Seed Eco-Home . Subscribe as a True Fan . See OSE Facebook for updates or join the discussion at the OSE Workshops FB Page . Subscribe to monthly update OSEmail . Donate to our 501(c)3 . OSE work is an ambitious volunteer project. Please consider joining as a dedicated OSE Developer . Marcin Jakubowski, Ph.D. Executive Director Open Source Ecology http://opensourceecology.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Wed Jan 1 08:11:28 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 15:11:28 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <2869415.kNb6u3kgeo@dizzy-7> Hi > That's a great idea if we can coordinate that - if there are more people > involved. The project for the 5 Project Days of the 9 day event is a > Raspberry Pi Film Studio, which will fill all that time already. But if a > bunch of people want to join, then we can do both - otherwise we'd need to > choose one or the other. Would be cool if you stick your heads together and figure something out. > That is above our pay grade as the curriculum is tightly defined already > with less ambitious builds, though still exciting for the novice or rapid > learner. If we have the higher pay grade people join from FOSDEM, this can > happen. Ok -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Wed Jan 1 08:21:55 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 15:21:55 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <5323640.FLvV2vT7p2@dizzy-7> Hi Marcin > This is great - https://libresilicon.com/ Thanks :-) > What are the current equipment needs that Open Source Ecology can help > with?We design and build industrial machines, and on our roadmap for 2022 > is production of photovoltaics. How much overlap is there for equipment > needs? In general, the operation of a clean room, even when minimal sized, is pretty expensive because of all the chemicals and the power consumption of the machines. What would be cool would be simplistic plasma etcher machines with batch load capability (from wafer cassette), as well as coaters and developers for the application of the resist. Then of course we need some furnaces, CMP engines and so on. Maybe you go through the documentation I wrote to get a better idea. > Great diagrams at > https://download.libresilicon.com/process/v1/process_hightech_steps.pdf - > thanks for producing that. Thanks for the compliments and thanks! Took me quite a while to make those with tikz (It's all in LaTeX). > For some of the machines - Ion implanter ? Plasma etcher ? Sputter engine > (Metal deposition) ? Diffusion furnace ? CVD/LPCVD machine ? Exposure unit > - are these the high cost items that constitute the majority of the $1B > cost of a fab? Or are there other major costs? My starting assumption is > that we can reduce the cost of a $1B fab 100x with open source design and > collaboration. Yeah. Those machines cost quite a lot even when bought second hand, and also the rent to already established labs, like the one at HKUST or the one in Lisbon, I'm probably going to use instead, (Portugal is a fantastic country, totally looking forward to go there), is pretty high. In order to set up a lab you'll have immense initial costs, just because manufacturing the required equipment will be very expensive, even if it's open source, you will still require the man hours and materials to build them. > Are you aware of any viable open source versions of the above equipment? Nope. That's why we have to design them from scratch. > Regarding smart-contract based rewarding of IP contributors in your > Lightning Talk - > does that mechanism have traction yet? Nope. That was more of a strategic move in the hope to get some crypto hippsters involved into the financing. Didn't work out so well. On the other hand, having the checksums for the verified GDS2 files in a decentralized database makes it way harder for an attacker to modify the layout somewhere on GitHub after said layout has been silicon verified and checked for security issues. -lev -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From hsank at posteo.de Wed Jan 1 10:02:47 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 10:02:47 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7>

Message-ID: On 1/1/20 12:58 AM, Marcin Jakubowski wrote: > For some of the machines -?Ion implanter ? Plasma etcher ? Sputter > engine (Metal deposition) ? Diffusion furnace ? CVD/LPCVD machine ? > Exposure unit - are these the high cost items that constitute the > majority of the $1B cost of? a fab? Or are there other major costs? My > starting assumption?is that we can reduce the cost?of a $1B fab 100x > with open source design and collaboration. > > Are you aware of any viable?open source versions of the above equipment? Someone on the 36c3 pointed me to this sides https://www.fabsurplus.com https://www.used-line.com/list-semiconductor-and-pcb https://surplus.infineon.com/ We do not have the Clean Room to host this nice used equipment. Even if there are price tags often with $100 only - you have to disassemble the stuff in the clean room there, ship to your location across a couple of borders and their regulations and assemble them on your own site again. Sometimes also this machines need some repair; and ofcourse cleaning, cleaning, and cleaning before you'll get the classification again. I guess, this equipment does not fit into your basement. Another guess is, a location like a very, very ambitious Maker Space or another University lab (like NFF at HKUST) to manufacture chips should be possible - or a partnership of a University and a Maker Space 'cause the task is to big for a single entity, so they have to cooperate on this. We have to find the right people to argue or to infect with the D.I.Y. virus. -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From hsank at posteo.de Thu Jan 2 10:28:42 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 10:28:42 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] 36c3 Message-ID: Hello List. I am back from the annual CCC event in Leipzig - and I catched the Congress-flu as always.. My talk about our Standard Cell Library is online in German as well as translated into English. Look at: https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10784-libresilicon_s_standard_cell_library_de (in German) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA7BHuAo9u0 (in English) During the 4 days I had a lot of interesting conversations with people there. My impression is, that this time we earned even more attention by the audience than last year. The fact, that Michiel from NLnet mentioned our project and proposals in his talk also kicks. So keep us rolling :-) -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From reminder at libresilicon.com Sat Jan 11 12:19:44 2020 From: reminder at libresilicon.com (reminder at libresilicon.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:19:44 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT Message-ID: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> Hello List! Just a small reminder for our next Mumble Sessions on this Sunday, 12/01/2020, at 21.00 Hong Kong Time. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. Thanks for the attention! From hsank at posteo.de Sun Jan 12 17:44:27 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 17:44:27 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT In-Reply-To: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> Message-ID: Hello List. Today, while talking about different possibilities to get back into a clean room and to continue with our work there, we had once again an other technical topic in our weekly Mumble session regarding the feature size on the steppers [0],[1]. All other machines are quite feasible in every clean room, but the resolution of the stepper determinate the size feature size of our technology node. Or, with smaller stepper resolutions we can manufacture smaller structures with Photolithography [2],[3] on silicon. Short, this machines limiting our possibilities, and, of course, they need masks [4] which are quite expensive. Already a couple of weeks ago came up the idea of using quite common display techniques instead of classical masks, which would allow to manufacture / photolithography mask-less but faster than usual Laser plotters are. Today Ference proposed to use the also quite common DPL technique [6],[7] which is used in Off-the-Shelf Projectors. So we are now thinking about designing / building a Stepper from scratch, or to replace the mask-holding parts / optics by something like Laser + Diffusor + DLP. Of course, this machine building stuff should be also open source, public and community-driven as well as our LibreSilicon process. In the beginning there is no need for keeping this machine in a clean room under controlled conditions. Just later, when it comes to production a machines has to get clean. So are there physicist out there which like to deal with this topic of constructing / hacking hacking such equipment? Please, if somebody of you on the list, or someone in your social surroundings, is interesting in this topic, let us know it. We are happy to seeing this kind of hacktivism also rising :-) Best Regards, Hagen. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_(Halbleitertechnik) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photolithography [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotolithografie_(Halbleitertechnik) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomask [5] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotomaske [6[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing [7] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn Sun Jan 12 18:32:45 2020 From: david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:32:45 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT In-Reply-To: References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> Message-ID: <2002781.CsxrPgLkYo@dizzy-7> Hi I've now sent an email to a mass-tape-out capable factory in Portugal, and asked whether they'd be interested into participating into LibreSilicon. I'm now waiting for an answer. About the stepper aligner with mask less lithography feature: You don't need a clean room for refurbishing an old stepper aligner and replacing the mask exposure part with a projector. I'm right now in Hong Kong and will most likely move over to Portugal, as soon as I finally get a feedback from the European Union on the status of my offer to continue our research there. I don't have the time to work full time on reverse engineering a stepper aligner besides developing a manufacturing process, but I can certainly give any volunteer for this task a helping hand with my long years of experience in doing so. Cheers -lev On Monday, 13 January 2020 12:44:27 AM HKT Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > Hello List. > > > Today, while talking about different possibilities to get back into a > clean room and to continue with our work there, we had once again an > other technical topic in our weekly Mumble session regarding the feature > size on the steppers [0],[1]. > > All other machines are quite feasible in every clean room, but the > resolution of the stepper determinate the size feature size of our > technology node. Or, with smaller stepper resolutions we can manufacture > smaller structures with Photolithography [2],[3] on silicon. Short, this > machines limiting our possibilities, and, of course, they need masks [4] > which are quite expensive. > > Already a couple of weeks ago came up the idea of using quite common > display techniques instead of classical masks, which would allow to > manufacture / photolithography mask-less but faster than usual Laser > plotters are. Today Ference proposed to use the also quite common DPL > technique [6],[7] which is used in Off-the-Shelf Projectors. > > So we are now thinking about designing / building a Stepper from > scratch, or to replace the mask-holding parts / optics by something like > Laser + Diffusor + DLP. > > Of course, this machine building stuff should be also open source, > public and community-driven as well as our LibreSilicon process. In the > beginning there is no need for keeping this machine in a clean room > under controlled conditions. Just later, when it comes to production a > machines has to get clean. > > So are there physicist out there which like to deal with this topic of > constructing / hacking hacking such equipment? > > Please, if somebody of you on the list, or someone in your social > surroundings, is interesting in this topic, let us know it. We are happy > to seeing this kind of hacktivism also rising :-) > > > Best Regards, > Hagen. > > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper > [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_(Halbleitertechnik) > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photolithography > [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotolithografie_(Halbleitertechnik) > [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomask > [5] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotomaske > [6[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing > [7] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From noah.wickel at rwth-aachen.de Sun Jan 12 21:08:14 2020 From: noah.wickel at rwth-aachen.de (Wickel, Noah) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:08:14 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT In-Reply-To: <2002781.CsxrPgLkYo@dizzy-7> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> , <2002781.CsxrPgLkYo@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <88138ff1f8264a2a9fc9edbbab6c5b5d@rwth-aachen.de> Hello everyone, i am Noah, M.Sc. in EE / Nanoelectronics from RWTH Aachen University. would be very interested participating in building a stepper scanner. What is your idea for tackling the problem? It would be helpful to understand what kind of expertise is needed in the team (as I do not know the current members of this group and couldnt join the mumble chat yesterday) to see if i could be of much help. Small disclaimer, I would be able to participate come the second week of February. Right now my schedule is way too packed already. Best, Noah ________________________________ Von: Libresilicon-developers im Auftrag von David Lanzend?rfer Gesendet: Sonntag, 12. Januar 2020 18:32:45 An: libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com Betreff: Re: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT Hi I've now sent an email to a mass-tape-out capable factory in Portugal, and asked whether they'd be interested into participating into LibreSilicon. I'm now waiting for an answer. About the stepper aligner with mask less lithography feature: You don't need a clean room for refurbishing an old stepper aligner and replacing the mask exposure part with a projector. I'm right now in Hong Kong and will most likely move over to Portugal, as soon as I finally get a feedback from the European Union on the status of my offer to continue our research there. I don't have the time to work full time on reverse engineering a stepper aligner besides developing a manufacturing process, but I can certainly give any volunteer for this task a helping hand with my long years of experience in doing so. Cheers -lev On Monday, 13 January 2020 12:44:27 AM HKT Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > Hello List. > > > Today, while talking about different possibilities to get back into a > clean room and to continue with our work there, we had once again an > other technical topic in our weekly Mumble session regarding the feature > size on the steppers [0],[1]. > > All other machines are quite feasible in every clean room, but the > resolution of the stepper determinate the size feature size of our > technology node. Or, with smaller stepper resolutions we can manufacture > smaller structures with Photolithography [2],[3] on silicon. Short, this > machines limiting our possibilities, and, of course, they need masks [4] > which are quite expensive. > > Already a couple of weeks ago came up the idea of using quite common > display techniques instead of classical masks, which would allow to > manufacture / photolithography mask-less but faster than usual Laser > plotters are. Today Ference proposed to use the also quite common DPL > technique [6],[7] which is used in Off-the-Shelf Projectors. > > So we are now thinking about designing / building a Stepper from > scratch, or to replace the mask-holding parts / optics by something like > Laser + Diffusor + DLP. > > Of course, this machine building stuff should be also open source, > public and community-driven as well as our LibreSilicon process. In the > beginning there is no need for keeping this machine in a clean room > under controlled conditions. Just later, when it comes to production a > machines has to get clean. > > So are there physicist out there which like to deal with this topic of > constructing / hacking hacking such equipment? > > Please, if somebody of you on the list, or someone in your social > surroundings, is interesting in this topic, let us know it. We are happy > to seeing this kind of hacktivism also rising :-) > > > Best Regards, > Hagen. > > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper > [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_(Halbleitertechnik) > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photolithography > [3] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotolithografie_(Halbleitertechnik) > [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomask > [5] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotomaske > [6[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing > [7] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkcl at lkcl.net Sun Jan 12 22:28:40 2020 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 05:28:40 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] PLLs Message-ID: https://zipcpu.com/dsp/2017/12/14/logic-pll.html fairly high on a priority list of any processor: a PLL. this was raised before, does anyone know about dan gisselquist's PLL code, or encountered other comparative designs? l. -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsank at posteo.de Mon Jan 13 02:40:01 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 02:40:01 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT In-Reply-To: <88138ff1f8264a2a9fc9edbbab6c5b5d@rwth-aachen.de> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <2002781.CsxrPgLkYo@dizzy-7> <88138ff1f8264a2a9fc9edbbab6c5b5d@rwth-aachen.de> Message-ID: <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> Hello Noah! On 1/12/20 9:08 PM, Wickel, Noah wrote: > Hello everyone, > i am Noah, M.Sc. in EE / Nanoelectronics from RWTH Aachen University. > would be very interested participating in building?a stepper scanner. > What is your idea for tackling the problem? It would be helpful to > understand what kind of expertise is needed in the team Well, how familiar you are with the silicon chip manufacturing process? For our 1 um process we should be able to bring well-shaped structures at least in this size and with good accuracy on the photo resist. The wavelength of light is between 750 nm (red) and 380 nm (violett). Older machines on the market are in the 650 down to 500 nm resolution range (as we used at HKUST). But for smaller structures, we need better resolutions. Mostly newer machines using diffraction (and multi-pattering) therefor. So I guess, the knowledge someone needs here is a mixture of - photolithography (how this is done on the wafers) - physics of Light - optics for scaling down bigger structures in the mask down to the small structures we need on the resist - mechanical (and systems) engineering - electronics (for controlling the machine) Our issue here is the following: in HKUST we had a stepper which was feasible. But now looking around to get into other clean rooms, we often see that there are *no* steppers. This also means, that a good photolithography for small clean rooms on Universities is not so quite common as expected. We could buy and install one in the clean room we like to go into (assuming we had a budget for that). But other folks which like to use our LibreSilicon process in their clean room probably facing the same problem. Hence, finding a solution which closes this gap for others too would be nice. Okay, this sounds a little bit scaring, I know. But probably you can set your footprint into that field and get your job offer from a equipment supplier if you like. Regards, Hagen -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From noah.wickel at rwth-aachen.de Tue Jan 14 01:20:54 2020 From: noah.wickel at rwth-aachen.de (Wickel, Noah) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 00:20:54 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <2002781.CsxrPgLkYo@dizzy-7> <88138ff1f8264a2a9fc9edbbab6c5b5d@rwth-aachen.de>, <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> Message-ID: Good day, didn't want to spam the mailling list with too much personal introduction right away ;) But ofc you should know a little about me if we might be working on a project together! >how familiar you are with the silicon chip manufacturing process? Studying electrical engineering i had the chance to go through the whole manufacturing process for 4?m gate length SOI nmos and pmos devices in a guided weekly lab course. It has been about two years since i was active in the lab, but i have some understanding of the general processes: standard clean, dry and wet etching, lithography with positive and negative processes, growing oxide... the bottom line is, i understand most of it but never worked in industry, or using cutting edge tools. And I am 99% sure RWTH's lab does not have a stepper. We used visible/near UV contact lithography in that course. If I understand correctly, you plan to use double patterning to make 1?m work on a regular projector's pixel grid and a condenser optics? I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very tempting project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in hackspaces ;D I guess I could best help with electronics and control programming, since that is an area i have some practical experience (microcontrollers as well as desktop). But not nearly as much as most people you'd meet at CCC -- i just think this is a very interesting project and i have some shallow understanding of almost all the puzzle pieces involved. Best, Noah ________________________________ Von: Libresilicon-developers im Auftrag von Hagen SANKOWSKI Gesendet: Montag, 13. Januar 2020 02:40 An: libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com Betreff: Re: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 12/01/2020, 21.00 HKT Hello Noah! On 1/12/20 9:08 PM, Wickel, Noah wrote: > Hello everyone, > i am Noah, M.Sc. in EE / Nanoelectronics from RWTH Aachen University. > would be very interested participating in building a stepper scanner. > What is your idea for tackling the problem? It would be helpful to > understand what kind of expertise is needed in the team Well, how familiar you are with the silicon chip manufacturing process? For our 1 um process we should be able to bring well-shaped structures at least in this size and with good accuracy on the photo resist. The wavelength of light is between 750 nm (red) and 380 nm (violett). Older machines on the market are in the 650 down to 500 nm resolution range (as we used at HKUST). But for smaller structures, we need better resolutions. Mostly newer machines using diffraction (and multi-pattering) therefor. So I guess, the knowledge someone needs here is a mixture of - photolithography (how this is done on the wafers) - physics of Light - optics for scaling down bigger structures in the mask down to the small structures we need on the resist - mechanical (and systems) engineering - electronics (for controlling the machine) Our issue here is the following: in HKUST we had a stepper which was feasible. But now looking around to get into other clean rooms, we often see that there are *no* steppers. This also means, that a good photolithography for small clean rooms on Universities is not so quite common as expected. We could buy and install one in the clean room we like to go into (assuming we had a budget for that). But other folks which like to use our LibreSilicon process in their clean room probably facing the same problem. Hence, finding a solution which closes this gap for others too would be nice. Okay, this sounds a little bit scaring, I know. But probably you can set your footprint into that field and get your job offer from a equipment supplier if you like. Regards, Hagen -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent _______________________________________________ Libresilicon-developers mailing list Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn Tue Jan 14 11:08:45 2020 From: david.lanzendoerfer at lanceville.cn (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:08:45 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> Message-ID: <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> Hi > Studying electrical engineering i had the chance to go through the whole > manufacturing process for 4?m gate length SOI nmos and pmos devices in a > guided weekly lab course. It has been about two years since i was active in > the lab, but i have some understanding of the general processes: standard > clean, dry and wet etching, lithography with positive and negative > processes, growing oxide... the bottom line is, i understand most of it but > never worked in industry, or using cutting edge tools. And I am 99% sure > RWTH's lab does not have a stepper. We used visible/near UV contact > lithography in that course. Sounds already good alright. > If I understand correctly, you plan to use double patterning to make 1?m > work on a regular projector's pixel grid and a condenser optics? For 1?m we might actually still fly ok with normal exposure using a projector but for higher resolutions we will have to use double patterning because you can only reduce so far with a lens system. > I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very tempting > project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in > hackspaces ;D Exactly. Yes. We can use a DMD[1] which already can go down to 500nm, as I've seen recently[2], assuming, we get the lens system right. > I guess I could best help with electronics and control programming, since > that is an area i have some practical experience (microcontrollers as well > as desktop). But not nearly as much as most people you'd meet at CCC -- i > just think this is a very interesting project and i have some shallow > understanding of almost all the puzzle pieces involved. I've checked on AliExpress and there are plenty of inexpensive DMD chips available for sale. One of those in combination with a good lens system and positioning system, might actually do the trick. -lev [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_micromirror_device [2] https://www.nanosystem-solutions.com/en/product/maskless -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From hsank at posteo.de Tue Jan 14 11:59:48 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:59:48 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <89fe27f7-7b99-4ccd-ff98-d67b1dd5886c@posteo.de> Hello. On 1/14/20 11:08 AM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: >> I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very tempting >> project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in >> hackspaces ;D > Exactly. Yes. :-) > We can use a DMD[1] which already can go down to 500nm, as I've seen > recently[2], assuming, we get the lens system right. A issue I see here is the pattern structure of DMDs. Between all the small mirrors are always even smaller gaps. If we like to draw a bar, eg. poly or whatever (ASCII-Art) ------------------------- ----- ^ | v ------------------------- ----- the mirrors are with a gap instead +-------+ +-------+ ----- | mirror| |mirror | ^ | | gap | | | | | | | v +-------+ +-------+ ----- |<----->| ??? This means that it becomes difficult to "stitch" two mirrors gap-less. For human eyes it does not matter, the eyes does not see the pixel / pattern structure. But I guess, the photo resist will see 'em - so we have to tricked them out somehow. Can we use here diffraction? Or we already need double-pattering here? Regards, Hagen. -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pmg at colorado.edu Tue Jan 14 15:59:40 2020 From: pmg at colorado.edu (Paul Gerhardt) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 22:59:40 +0800 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: <89fe27f7-7b99-4ccd-ff98-d67b1dd5886c@posteo.de> References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> <89fe27f7-7b99-4ccd-ff98-d67b1dd5886c@posteo.de> Message-ID: DLP/DMD is promising. I'd also say check out the short throw laser projectors - in particular the new Xiaomi 4k model has native 0.5um pitch, 5000 lumens and only costs ?10999rmb/?1433 for CNY specials - it uses ALPD 3.0 though as I understand it Appotronics came out with an even newer 4.0 spec in 2018: http://www.appotronicsusa.com/alpd_technology.html -pmg On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:00 PM Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > Hello. > > On 1/14/20 11:08 AM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > >> I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very tempting > >> project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in > >> hackspaces ;D > > Exactly. Yes. > > :-) > > > We can use a DMD[1] which already can go down to 500nm, as I've seen > > recently[2], assuming, we get the lens system right. > > A issue I see here is the pattern structure of DMDs. Between all the > small mirrors are always even smaller gaps. > > If we like to draw a bar, eg. poly or whatever > (ASCII-Art) > > ------------------------- ----- > ^ > | > v > ------------------------- ----- > > the mirrors are with a gap instead > > +-------+ +-------+ ----- > | mirror| |mirror | ^ > | | gap | | | > | | | | v > +-------+ +-------+ ----- > > |<----->| > ??? > > This means that it becomes difficult to "stitch" two mirrors gap-less. > For human eyes it does not matter, the eyes does not see the pixel / > pattern structure. But I guess, the photo resist will see 'em - so we > have to tricked them out somehow. > > Can we use here diffraction? > Or we already need double-pattering here? > > Regards, > Hagen. > > -- > support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room > https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1X48t-eiDZPXuS3di6IC1xHDUuEQ5PNtCMljSC7HHWWK2fL8eXVUZId5FIJWetqtwlyRCH5TEcdYnDp14vrL98QEsWiGOFel2DA1ukp9mAyCrJLQmOvAsxeKV-I1Q8EICCVOhZ5RD3US1X4ydX1EU7Wr19BVDpfJLzjtYqYZ1gjgnWmHymClgWu4aBNU69M5q03lMmBUkIyWAN6B3tim8ZdhwUQtl-zw_aUBJnrN404AkvSpHHx3UimhVNuCtwEQmQ1Sb78Qqpil9mwQqtde853NA5J93_BVscLDMkrgRgbVl7QMQ-bHwP7WnCV76gUxRoxtFrjOWhC9544WXosy8W9-VodD2fJPBSwwchPmz6SIa8Ph4ivjZq7fF4c_nmX3VXQd9Cyz0WHZl7lR3_QrxcK-RcqUciHG5JAA5lauAiWBeHUMh0ITEFZ12cSuvcq_jwN7f65GUg8ZMh5atoqeMrA/https%3A%2F%2Flist.libresilicon.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flibresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsank at posteo.de Tue Jan 14 17:08:14 2020 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:08:14 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> <89fe27f7-7b99-4ccd-ff98-d67b1dd5886c@posteo.de> Message-ID: Thanks for the Link! As I understood, APLD versions are based on different techniques. ALPD 3.0 has red and blue laser APLD 4.0 has blue laser plus phosphor Former versions are with the typical colour wheel which we do not need. We just need the laser source, and if this is blue, we have shorter wave length which is fine. Photoresists are sensitive to short wave length light, hence the yellow light inside clean rooms. If there is red light (close to the insensitive yellow spectrum) also we could use this for the mask position marker. Sounds nice! So have a deeper look at that! Hagen. On 1/14/20 3:59 PM, Paul Gerhardt wrote: > DLP/DMD is promising. I'd also say check out the short throw laser > projectors - in particular the new Xiaomi 4k model has native 0.5um > pitch, 5000 lumens and only costs ?10999rmb/?1433 for CNY specials - it > uses ALPD 3.0 though as I understand it Appotronics came out with an > even newer 4.0 spec in > 2018:?http://www.appotronicsusa.com/alpd_technology.html > -pmg > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:00 PM Hagen SANKOWSKI > wrote: > > Hello. > > On 1/14/20 11:08 AM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > >> I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very > tempting > >> project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in > >> hackspaces ;D > > Exactly. Yes. > > :-) > > > We can use a DMD[1] which already can go down to 500nm, as I've seen > > recently[2], assuming, we get the lens system right. > > A issue I see here is the pattern structure of DMDs. Between all the > small mirrors are always even smaller gaps. > > If we like to draw a bar, eg. poly or whatever > (ASCII-Art) > > -------------------------? ? ----- > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^ > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?v > -------------------------? ? ----- > > the mirrors are with a gap instead > > +-------+? ? ? ?+-------+? ? ----- > | mirror|? ? ? ?|mirror |? ? ? ^ > |? ? ? ?|? gap? |? ? ? ?|? ? ? | > |? ? ? ?|? ? ? ?|? ? ? ?|? ? ? v > +-------+? ? ? ?+-------+? ? ----- > > ? ? ? ? |<----->| > ? ? ? ? ? ???? > > This means that it becomes difficult to "stitch" two mirrors gap-less. > For human eyes it does not matter, the eyes does not see the pixel / > pattern structure. But I guess, the photo resist will see 'em - so we > have to tricked them out somehow. > > Can we use here diffraction? > Or we already need double-pattering here? > > Regards, > Hagen. > > -- > support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room > https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1X48t-eiDZPXuS3di6IC1xHDUuEQ5PNtCMljSC7HHWWK2fL8eXVUZId5FIJWetqtwlyRCH5TEcdYnDp14vrL98QEsWiGOFel2DA1ukp9mAyCrJLQmOvAsxeKV-I1Q8EICCVOhZ5RD3US1X4ydX1EU7Wr19BVDpfJLzjtYqYZ1gjgnWmHymClgWu4aBNU69M5q03lMmBUkIyWAN6B3tim8ZdhwUQtl-zw_aUBJnrN404AkvSpHHx3UimhVNuCtwEQmQ1Sb78Qqpil9mwQqtde853NA5J93_BVscLDMkrgRgbVl7QMQ-bHwP7WnCV76gUxRoxtFrjOWhC9544WXosy8W9-VodD2fJPBSwwchPmz6SIa8Ph4ivjZq7fF4c_nmX3VXQd9Cyz0WHZl7lR3_QrxcK-RcqUciHG5JAA5lauAiWBeHUMh0ITEFZ12cSuvcq_jwN7f65GUg8ZMh5atoqeMrA/https%3A%2F%2Flist.libresilicon.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flibresilicon-developers > > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > -- support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent From staf at fibraservi.eu Wed Jan 15 17:56:11 2020 From: staf at fibraservi.eu (Staf Verhaegen) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 17:56:11 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper / Litho system ideas In-Reply-To: References: <20200111111945.C0A2D33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> <7a36aff4-737d-7705-ad5f-847dc1c99f30@posteo.de> <9186975.s3RsnlvCjr@dizzy-7> <89fe27f7-7b99-4ccd-ff98-d67b1dd5886c@posteo.de> Message-ID: All, One of the difficult engineering problems for maskless lithography is throughput. So maybe the first task for a guy looking further into this is compute what the expected throughput will be of the maskless lithography system one wants to develop. The first thing to do is determine how many pixels you want to use for printing a minimum width feature. If you stick to use one pixel for a minimum feature width and the layer is for example polysilicon you will be limited in the variation you can make of width, length and pitch of the poly lines. If this is done one knows how much area will be covered by the resolution of the selected projection system and thus how many images are needed to cover a full waver. Finally step is to determine how many images per second one can print, including alignment after each position change and this will determine the time it will take to print a full waver. An alternative is to use such a litho system to make your own masks and use these then for printing wafers. greets, Staf. Paul Gerhardt schreef op di 14-01-2020 om 22:59 [+0800]: > DLP/DMD is promising. I'd also say check out the short throw laser projectors - in particular the new Xiaomi 4k model has native 0.5um pitch, 5000 lumens and only costs ?10999rmb/?1433 for CNY specials - it uses ALPD 3.0 though as I understand it Appotronics came out with an even newer 4.0 spec in 2018: http://www.appotronicsusa.com/alpd_technology.html-pmg > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:00 PM Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > Hello. > > > > > > > > On 1/14/20 11:08 AM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > > > > > > > >> I guess that is both a very ambitious but at the same time very tempting > > > > >> project. Looking forward to seeing self-made litho steppers pop up in > > > > >> hackspaces ;D > > > > > Exactly. Yes. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > We can use a DMD[1] which already can go down to 500nm, as I've seen > > > > > recently[2], assuming, we get the lens system right. > > > > > > > > A issue I see here is the pattern structure of DMDs. Between all the > > > > small mirrors are always even smaller gaps. > > > > > > > > If we like to draw a bar, eg. poly or whatever > > > > (ASCII-Art) > > > > > > > > ------------------------- ----- > > > > ^ > > > > | > > > > v > > > > ------------------------- ----- > > > > > > > > the mirrors are with a gap instead > > > > > > > > +-------+ +-------+ ----- > > > > | mirror| |mirror | ^ > > > > | | gap | | | > > > > | | | | v > > > > +-------+ +-------+ ----- > > > > > > > > |<----->| > > > > ??? > > > > > > > > This means that it becomes difficult to "stitch" two mirrors gap-less. > > > > For human eyes it does not matter, the eyes does not see the pixel / > > > > pattern structure. But I guess, the photo resist will see 'em - so we > > > > have to tricked them out somehow. > > > > > > > > Can we use here diffraction? > > > > Or we already need double-pattering here? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Hagen. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________Libresilicon-developers mailing listLibresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From reminder at libresilicon.com Fri Jan 17 15:40:21 2020 From: reminder at libresilicon.com (reminder at libresilicon.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 15:40:21 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 18/01/2020, 21.00 HKT Message-ID: <20200117144022.5EDFE33EDBA@mail.lanceville.cn> Hello List! Just a small reminder for our next Mumble Sessions on this Sunday, 18/01/2020, at 21.00 Hong Kong Time. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. Thanks for the attention! From cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com Tue Jan 21 17:32:33 2020 From: cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com (Christoph Maier) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 17:32:33 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] FOSDEM attendance Message-ID: Hi all, who else will be at FOSDEM, and will some of you be there before 1 February or after 2 February? About to schedule my trip, tatzelbrumm From ludwig.jaffe at gmail.com Wed Jan 22 20:48:48 2020 From: ludwig.jaffe at gmail.com (ludwig jaffe) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 14:48:48 -0500 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] FOSDEM attendance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will attend, as it will be cool. Please remind me, as I am sometimes not focused :-) Cheers ludwig On January 21, 2020 6:32:33 PM GMT+02:00, Christoph Maier < cm.hardware.software.elsewhere at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > who else will be at FOSDEM, and will some of you be there before 1 > February or after 2 February? > > About to schedule my trip, > tatzelbrumm > ________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -- "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin (1775) Sent from a mobile phone with a tiny touch keyboard with some autocorrection. Blame my phone for typos as I dont care. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcin at opensourceecology.org Wed Jan 1 10:17:37 2020 From: marcin at opensourceecology.org (Marcin Jakubowski) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 09:17:37 -0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] [OT only slightly] STEAM Camp OpenSourceEcology 22jan2020 for 9 days In-Reply-To: References: <5987455.PU5xYybd5s@dizzy-7>

Message-ID: I think ours qualifies as an ambitious Maker Space, so let this be the first official claim of record for Factor e Farm, our facility, to produce the world's first complete libre fab down to near quantum tunneling limits, and PV manufacturing facility on top of that:) Open silicon is just a prerequisite for a democratic society, as I'm sure that most people on this list understand. Happy New Year to all of you. MJ On Wed, Jan 1, 2020 at 3:02 AM Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > On 1/1/20 12:58 AM, Marcin Jakubowski wrote: > > > For some of the machines - Ion implanter ? Plasma etcher ? Sputter > > engine (Metal deposition) ? Diffusion furnace ? CVD/LPCVD machine ? > > Exposure unit - are these the high cost items that constitute the > > majority of the $1B cost of a fab? Or are there other major costs? My > > starting assumption is that we can reduce the cost of a $1B fab 100x > > with open source design and collaboration. > > > > Are you aware of any viable open source versions of the above equipment? > Someone on the 36c3 pointed me to this sides > > https://www.fabsurplus.com > https://www.used-line.com/list-semiconductor-and-pcb > https://surplus.infineon.com/ > > We do not have the Clean Room to host this nice used equipment. Even if > there are price tags often with $100 only - you have to disassemble the > stuff in the clean room there, ship to your location across a couple of > borders and their regulations and assemble them on your own site again. > Sometimes also this machines need some repair; and ofcourse cleaning, > cleaning, and cleaning before you'll get the classification again. > > I guess, this equipment does not fit into your basement. > > Another guess is, a location like a very, very ambitious Maker Space or > another University lab (like NFF at HKUST) to manufacture chips should > be possible - or a partnership of a University and a Maker Space 'cause > the task is to big for a single entity, so they have to cooperate on this. > > We have to find the right people to argue or to infect with the D.I.Y. > virus. > > -- > support LibreSilicon to get back into the Clean Room > https://www.gofundme.com/f/libresilicon-cleanroom-rent > -- *Full Disclosure:* OSE works openly. All conversations in this email are intended to be transparent and subject to sharing, with due respect. OSE does not sign NDAs in order to promote collaboration. All of our work is libre or open source. If you are discussing potential hardware development collaboration, your work must also be open source pursuant to the Open Source Hardware Association definition . See Global Village Construction Set TED Talk . See latest build of Seed Eco-Home . Subscribe as a True Fan . See OSE Facebook for updates or join the discussion at the OSE Workshops FB Page . Subscribe to monthly update OSEmail . Donate to our 501(c)3 . OSE work is an ambitious volunteer project. Please consider joining as a dedicated OSE Developer . Marcin Jakubowski, Ph.D. Executive Director Open Source Ecology http://opensourceecology.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: