From eegerferenc at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 14:15:34 2020 From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?w4lnZXIgRmVyZW5j?=) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2020 14:15:34 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Weekly Mumble Message-ID: Hello Everyone! Is the scheduling of weekly Mumble session still Sunday 2100 HKT? I found no-one there and then. Regards, Ferenc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Mar 8 14:22:45 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2020 13:22:45 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Weekly Mumble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3053650.8N48SxpH9P@lenny> Hi I just had forgotten, that with the new time zone, the meeting would have started 20 minutes ago ^^' I quickly install the mumble client on this laptop here and come online. cheers -lev Am Sunday, March 8, 2020, 1:15:34 PM WET schrieb ?ger Ferenc: > Hello Everyone! > > Is the scheduling of weekly Mumble session still Sunday 2100 HKT? I found > no-one there and then. > > Regards, > Ferenc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Mar 8 14:30:45 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2020 13:30:45 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Weekly Mumble In-Reply-To: <3053650.8N48SxpH9P@lenny> References: <3053650.8N48SxpH9P@lenny> Message-ID: <3169604.DrkGN0qVNa@lenny> I'm now in Mumble Am Sunday, March 8, 2020, 1:22:45 PM WET schrieb David Lanzend?rfer: > Hi > I just had forgotten, that with the new time zone, the meeting would have > started 20 minutes ago ^^' > I quickly install the mumble client on this laptop here and come online. > > cheers > -lev > > Am Sunday, March 8, 2020, 1:15:34 PM WET schrieb ?ger Ferenc: > > Hello Everyone! > > > > Is the scheduling of weekly Mumble session still Sunday 2100 HKT? I found > > no-one there and then. > > > > Regards, > > Ferenc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From pavel at noa-labs.com Wed Mar 11 00:45:09 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 05:45:09 +0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <10841269.atouL5KuaO@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> Message-ID: Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry event, they were still pitching people around https://www.jb-display.com/projects Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, but still better than i-line On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very low > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes of > 50nm or so. > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available anyway, > at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've come across > so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > -lev > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. From leviathan at libresilicon.com Wed Mar 11 10:15:17 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 09:15:17 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> Message-ID: <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> Hi Pavel Do you have a contact or so, of those guys? I've just moved to Portugal and enjoy this beautiful place with its very very nice view everywhere :-) (I'd go into the details now about all those beautiful ladies, but this mailing list is public xD) Maybe you can get us into touch by sending an email to both of us, in case you got a mingpian from the folks or so? But considering, that they haven't managed to manufacture a working prototype, they might not be able to produce anything better, then what we could manufacture at INL (The new lab in Portugal) anyway. We maybe have to hack something together with a less expensive DMD display operated outside the specified ranges... There are some micro mirror devices which materials which can also reflect UV light, I believe. In addition, it would solve the issue with addressing and homogenity of the UV light source. Cheers -lev Am Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:45:09 PM WET schrieb Pavel Nikulin: > Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard > of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't > have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry > event, they were still pitching people around > https://www.jb-display.com/projects > > Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is > achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, > but still better than i-line > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > wrote: > > Hi > > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very > > low > > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes > > of 50nm or so. > > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available > > anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've > > come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > > > -lev > > > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From pavel at noa-labs.com Wed Mar 11 12:22:44 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 17:22:44 +0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> Message-ID: No contact with them. When I meant that they haven't sold anything, I meant them not having a customer. I saw them showing working samples. Making LEDs for short wavelengths is very far from trivial, even in the case of the most plain types. I supposed custom DMDs are even harder. On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi Pavel > Do you have a contact or so, of those guys? > I've just moved to Portugal and enjoy this beautiful place with its very very > nice view everywhere :-) > (I'd go into the details now about all those beautiful ladies, but this > mailing list is public xD) > Maybe you can get us into touch by sending an email to both of us, > in case you got a mingpian from the folks or so? > But considering, that they haven't managed to manufacture a working > prototype, they might not be able to produce anything better, then > what we could manufacture at INL (The new lab in Portugal) anyway. > We maybe have to hack something together with a less expensive > DMD display operated outside the specified ranges... > There are some micro mirror devices which materials which can also > reflect UV light, I believe. > In addition, it would solve the issue with addressing and homogenity > of the UV light source. > > Cheers > -lev > > Am Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:45:09 PM WET schrieb Pavel Nikulin: > > Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard > > of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't > > have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry > > event, they were still pitching people around > > https://www.jb-display.com/projects > > > > Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is > > achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, > > but still better than i-line > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very > > > low > > > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > > > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > > > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes > > > of 50nm or so. > > > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available > > > anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've > > > come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > > > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > > > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > > > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > > > > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From pavel at noa-labs.com Wed Mar 11 12:30:17 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 17:30:17 +0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> Message-ID: The benefit of DMD is that it's probably physically possible to make one for short enough wavelength, and then use whatever plasma light source with it. On the other hand, DMD will probably need a dramatically different optics that will necessitate somebody PhD level to work on it. Even in the years of i-line devices, optics was already gigantic enough, and likely made a big part of the scanner cost. On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi Pavel > Do you have a contact or so, of those guys? > I've just moved to Portugal and enjoy this beautiful place with its very very > nice view everywhere :-) > (I'd go into the details now about all those beautiful ladies, but this > mailing list is public xD) > Maybe you can get us into touch by sending an email to both of us, > in case you got a mingpian from the folks or so? > But considering, that they haven't managed to manufacture a working > prototype, they might not be able to produce anything better, then > what we could manufacture at INL (The new lab in Portugal) anyway. > We maybe have to hack something together with a less expensive > DMD display operated outside the specified ranges... > There are some micro mirror devices which materials which can also > reflect UV light, I believe. > In addition, it would solve the issue with addressing and homogenity > of the UV light source. > > Cheers > -lev > > Am Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:45:09 PM WET schrieb Pavel Nikulin: > > Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard > > of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't > > have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry > > event, they were still pitching people around > > https://www.jb-display.com/projects > > > > Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is > > achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, > > but still better than i-line > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very > > > low > > > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > > > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > > > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes > > > of 50nm or so. > > > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available > > > anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've > > > come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > > > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > > > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > > > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > > > > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From pavel at noa-labs.com Wed Mar 11 13:20:02 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:20:02 +0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> Message-ID: Former CTO email: fang_ou at jb-display.com I head Apple has hired him On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi Pavel > Do you have a contact or so, of those guys? > I've just moved to Portugal and enjoy this beautiful place with its very very > nice view everywhere :-) > (I'd go into the details now about all those beautiful ladies, but this > mailing list is public xD) > Maybe you can get us into touch by sending an email to both of us, > in case you got a mingpian from the folks or so? > But considering, that they haven't managed to manufacture a working > prototype, they might not be able to produce anything better, then > what we could manufacture at INL (The new lab in Portugal) anyway. > We maybe have to hack something together with a less expensive > DMD display operated outside the specified ranges... > There are some micro mirror devices which materials which can also > reflect UV light, I believe. > In addition, it would solve the issue with addressing and homogenity > of the UV light source. > > Cheers > -lev > > Am Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:45:09 PM WET schrieb Pavel Nikulin: > > Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard > > of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't > > have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry > > event, they were still pitching people around > > https://www.jb-display.com/projects > > > > Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is > > achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, > > but still better than i-line > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very > > > low > > > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > > > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > > > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes > > > of 50nm or so. > > > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available > > > anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've > > > come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > > > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > > > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > > > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > > > > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From pavel at noa-labs.com Wed Mar 11 13:53:14 2020 From: pavel at noa-labs.com (Pavel Nikulin) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:53:14 +0600 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Maskless lithography In-Reply-To: <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> References: <14520497.D7jU0x56Jg@dizzy-7> <6514823.FIfEt4xGWz@dizzy-7> <3506413.DHXFvH0MNj@lenny> Message-ID: Another fellow worth contacting is this gentleman https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddie-wing-cheung-chong-30496014 . I believe that after Apple has hired half of JBD's core team, the company has effectively turned defunct. It would be funny seeing how Apple vs. Beida (true owner of Jade Bird group) will fare in Chinese courts. On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > > Hi Pavel > Do you have a contact or so, of those guys? > I've just moved to Portugal and enjoy this beautiful place with its very very > nice view everywhere :-) > (I'd go into the details now about all those beautiful ladies, but this > mailing list is public xD) > Maybe you can get us into touch by sending an email to both of us, > in case you got a mingpian from the folks or so? > But considering, that they haven't managed to manufacture a working > prototype, they might not be able to produce anything better, then > what we could manufacture at INL (The new lab in Portugal) anyway. > We maybe have to hack something together with a less expensive > DMD display operated outside the specified ranges... > There are some micro mirror devices which materials which can also > reflect UV light, I believe. > In addition, it would solve the issue with addressing and homogenity > of the UV light source. > > Cheers > -lev > > Am Tuesday, March 10, 2020, 11:45:09 PM WET schrieb Pavel Nikulin: > > Following on the custom microled device idea. One company I have heard > > of recently is Hong Kong Beida Jade Bird Display. They still don't > > have a selling product, and the last time I saw them on an industry > > event, they were still pitching people around > > https://www.jb-display.com/projects > > > > Maybe they will be open to the idea of a custom device. 435nm is > > achievable with GaN with which they already work. 435nm is not great, > > but still better than i-line > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:43 PM David Lanzend?rfer > > > > wrote: > > > Hi > > > So as Staf pointed out, EUV exposure has to be performed at a very very > > > low > > > pressure, which is inconvenient to handle. > > > So I'd prefer DUV or normal UV light. > > > However, it would be of course fantastic, if we could reach feature sizes > > > of 50nm or so. > > > It occured to me, that we will have an e-beam exposure unit available > > > anyway, at the lab, and that we can deposit all of the materials I've > > > come across so far, commonly used to build UV LEDs. > > > Do we wanna design our own (D)UV microLED matrix, maybe? > > > We have the manufacturing equipment anyway, and it might be a cool > > > selling point. And it's probably easier to manufacture than MEMs. > > > > > > As kind of a side quest :-) > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > You can't produce EUV with anything made of solid matter. Even DUV and > > > > Fluorine lasers (157nm) get absorbed way too enthusiastically. This is > > > > why Fluorine litho sank on arrival, and the industry stayed on 193nm. > > > > Switching to 157nm was requiring a change of material technology > > > > comparable to EUV, but long term gains were not in 157nm's favour. > > > > > > > > Both 157nm and EUV can make 25nm feature sizes, but that's only a > > > > small increment over 30-35 nm what a typical DUV system can do with > > > > immersion. The industry still went EUV because tech transition with it > > > > would ease future transition to Xray litho, which would also rely on > > > > similar resist chemistry and vacuum. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From reminder at libresilicon.com Sun Mar 22 12:18:21 2020 From: reminder at libresilicon.com (reminder at libresilicon.com) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 12:18:21 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 23/03/2020, 21.00 HKT Message-ID: <20200322111823.360A033E637@mail.lanceville.cn> Hello List! Just a small reminder for our next Mumble Sessions on this Sunday, 23/03/2020, at 21.00 Hong Kong Time. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. Thanks for the attention! From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun Mar 22 12:19:23 2020 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2020 11:19:23 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Reminder - Next Mumble session on Sunday, 23/03/2020, 21.00 HKT In-Reply-To: <20200322111823.360A033E637@mail.lanceville.cn> References: <20200322111823.360A033E637@mail.lanceville.cn> Message-ID: <2294526.uaLiDUUDmq@lenny> Hi And ooops For some reason it says 23 instead of 22nd Of course I mean in a 2 hours LOL glg -lev On Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:18:21 AM WET reminder at libresilicon.com wrote: > Hello List! > Just a small reminder for our next Mumble Sessions on this Sunday, > 23/03/2020, at 21.00 Hong Kong Time. Please join us as usual at our Mumble > Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. > > Thanks for the attention! > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: