From martingeisse at googlemail.com Sun May 2 08:17:41 2021 From: martingeisse at googlemail.com (Martin Geisse) Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 08:17:41 +0200 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] coating / chemicals / litho / strategy In-Reply-To: <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> References: <2283742.WTMS2gejt6@harvey> <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> Message-ID: Hi, on a second thought, I'm no longer sure that the projector approach is even necessary to get some simple results. Real early chips were, IIRC, exposed through a mask made out of tape on some substrate (articles say vellum, but Wikipedia is ambiguous on what that even is, but I think any substrate will do as long as its flat and UV-transparent). AFAIK glass is UVA-transparent, so it will probably work as a substrate too, at least with that photoresist I found. Granted, that isn't maskless anymore, but a simple mask should be rather easy to make that way, it just doesn't scale well to complex masks. Scaling the mask down to die size is easy with the optics from the dismantled projector. As a test, I projected a miniature version of my cellphone screen onto the table. I'll next order some of the photoresist and do some exposure experiments, including masking with tape. Greetings, Martin On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 6:08 PM David Lanzend?rfer < leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > Hi > I think this one is more suitable: > https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLP2000AFQC? > qs=T3oQrply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D > > > The board is connected through an FQC 42 connector socket, which I'm > right now unable to find online. > I guess I've gotta do some more digging on Alibaba and so on, in order > to get my hands on one of those. > > Cheers > -lev > > On Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34:10 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm not sure who would be interested in buying a cheap makeshift > > spin-coater since you cannot get anywhere with just that, and it's > > super-easy to make yourself. For somebody who wants to make their own > > chips, a much more interesting target would IMHO be a development board > for > > the DMD chip, even if it is nothing more than power, capacitors and a pin > > header for everything else. The DMD chip has an LGA package, and another > > one I found at TI has a PGA package, so that's a bit tough to solder by > > hand. There are dev boards available, but they are basically a simple > > projector (e.g. including optics) [1] -- maybe it is possible to modify > > that instead of a full projector. > > > > [1] > > > https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLPDLCR2000EVM?qs=BZBe > > i1rCqCAQetmBz0G1xQ== > > > > Anyway, I can't tell you the model of the fan/motor since it is one of > the > > case fans of the DLP projector I took apart. I'm pretty sure that I can > get > > a better PC case fan for 2? at the next supplier for computer parts. > > > > WRT financing, let me repeat that I'm willing to spend money on even the > > simplest chips, at this point even a single MOSFET, if they prove that > the > > whole idea isn't vaporware. I'm pretty sure we can find more people that > > feel the same when the first actual device gets posted to Hackaday and > > similar sites. Also, a Patreon site like [2] may help, but again, only if > > you can actually present something working (that guy can't). I think Sam > > Zeloof neglected this too much and didn't give people an easy way to send > > him money, because I'm convinced he would have gotten a lot of it. > > > > [2] https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14363159 > > > > Greetings, > > Martin > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:52 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > Hi > > > So I've now set up the office here with tables and stuff and could > > > reproduce > > > your experiments. > > > If we know which motor performs ok for building a cheap spin coater, I > > > could > > > actually build one a little bit more professionally, by ordering some > of > > > those > > > motors from Aliexpress. > > > We could then sell those coaters on eBay and finance LibreSilicon > > > a bit with it. > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > Cheers > > > -lev > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 6:36:11 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms first > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid > > > > > > > > That did the job. I still think that the RPM is quite low because the > > > > fan > > > > is too weak, and I might later switch to the power drill to improve > > > > that, > > > > but applying the liquid only after the motor is spinning is > definitely > > > > > > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > You need to dispense liquid in middle of wafer as liquid will > online > > > > > > move > > > > > > > outwards. > > > > > > > > Obviously :) > > > > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > primer > > > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > I only did a test, spinning oil onto a coin. I guess that the primer > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > with wetting and/or sticking to the wafer surface, which wasn't > (yet) a > > > > problem in my test. Anyway, good to know! > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:06 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > > Exactly. > > > > > First you've gotta spin up the wafer, and then you've gotta > dispense > > > > > it > > > > > kind of towards the center, but it's not so critical. > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > primer first. > > > > > > > https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/unternehmen-de/produkte/~/3M-Silan-G > > > > > > > > las-Primer-Transparent-1-L-Flasche/?N=5002385+3294237313&rt=rud > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:24:57 PM WEST Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > > > > On wo, 2021-04-28 at 11:23 +0200, Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - spin coating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I finally tried to build a makeshift spin coater the way Sam > > > > > > > Zeloof > > > > > > > did, by mounting a plastic can on top of a CPU fan (actually a > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > fan from another device I had lying around). I can't say this > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > way to go... the fan is way too weak to spin the can at a > > > > > > meaningful > > > > > > > > > > speed. It is also very hard to center the can exactly, so it > > > > > > wobbles > > > > > > > > > > a lot and that probably reduces the speed even more. Mounting a > > > > > > > die > > > > > > > without a container would allow the fan to spin faster, but > would > > > > > > > likely clog the fan with chemicals in no time. I'll next try my > > > > > > > original idea, to mount the can to an axle that I'll stick > into a > > > > > > > power drill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One thing I did find out is that the coating liquid should be > > > > > > evenly > > > > > > > > > > applied before spinning. It will NOT spread to the whole > surface > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > itself, but rather run to a single direction in a concentrated > > > > > > > stream, probably due to surface tension. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms > first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid. You need to dispense > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > in middle of wafer as liquid will online move outwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yrrapt at gmail.com Sun May 2 13:18:48 2021 From: yrrapt at gmail.com (Thomas Parry) Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 13:18:48 +0200 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] coating / chemicals / litho / strategy In-Reply-To: <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> References: <2283742.WTMS2gejt6@harvey> <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> Message-ID: Hi, I went down this path about a year ago and created a prototype board for the DMD chip. I don't really have the bandwidth to take it further at the moment, but I've just uploaded the design files, maybe it's useful for the LibreSilicon efforts. https://github.com/yrrapt/icfab Cheers, Thomas On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 18:08, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > Hi > I think this one is more suitable: > https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLP2000AFQC? > qs=T3oQrply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D > > > The board is connected through an FQC 42 connector socket, which I'm > right now unable to find online. > I guess I've gotta do some more digging on Alibaba and so on, in order > to get my hands on one of those. > > Cheers > -lev > > On Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34:10 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm not sure who would be interested in buying a cheap makeshift > > spin-coater since you cannot get anywhere with just that, and it's > > super-easy to make yourself. For somebody who wants to make their own > > chips, a much more interesting target would IMHO be a development board > for > > the DMD chip, even if it is nothing more than power, capacitors and a pin > > header for everything else. The DMD chip has an LGA package, and another > > one I found at TI has a PGA package, so that's a bit tough to solder by > > hand. There are dev boards available, but they are basically a simple > > projector (e.g. including optics) [1] -- maybe it is possible to modify > > that instead of a full projector. > > > > [1] > > > https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLPDLCR2000EVM?qs=BZBe > > i1rCqCAQetmBz0G1xQ== > > > > Anyway, I can't tell you the model of the fan/motor since it is one of > the > > case fans of the DLP projector I took apart. I'm pretty sure that I can > get > > a better PC case fan for 2? at the next supplier for computer parts. > > > > WRT financing, let me repeat that I'm willing to spend money on even the > > simplest chips, at this point even a single MOSFET, if they prove that > the > > whole idea isn't vaporware. I'm pretty sure we can find more people that > > feel the same when the first actual device gets posted to Hackaday and > > similar sites. Also, a Patreon site like [2] may help, but again, only if > > you can actually present something working (that guy can't). I think Sam > > Zeloof neglected this too much and didn't give people an easy way to send > > him money, because I'm convinced he would have gotten a lot of it. > > > > [2] https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14363159 > > > > Greetings, > > Martin > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:52 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > Hi > > > So I've now set up the office here with tables and stuff and could > > > reproduce > > > your experiments. > > > If we know which motor performs ok for building a cheap spin coater, I > > > could > > > actually build one a little bit more professionally, by ordering some > of > > > those > > > motors from Aliexpress. > > > We could then sell those coaters on eBay and finance LibreSilicon > > > a bit with it. > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > Cheers > > > -lev > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 6:36:11 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms first > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid > > > > > > > > That did the job. I still think that the RPM is quite low because the > > > > fan > > > > is too weak, and I might later switch to the power drill to improve > > > > that, > > > > but applying the liquid only after the motor is spinning is > definitely > > > > > > very > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > You need to dispense liquid in middle of wafer as liquid will > online > > > > > > move > > > > > > > outwards. > > > > > > > > Obviously :) > > > > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > primer > > > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > I only did a test, spinning oil onto a coin. I guess that the primer > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > with wetting and/or sticking to the wafer surface, which wasn't > (yet) a > > > > problem in my test. Anyway, good to know! > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:06 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > > Exactly. > > > > > First you've gotta spin up the wafer, and then you've gotta > dispense > > > > > it > > > > > kind of towards the center, but it's not so critical. > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > primer first. > > > > > > > https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/unternehmen-de/produkte/~/3M-Silan-G > > > > > > > > las-Primer-Transparent-1-L-Flasche/?N=5002385+3294237313&rt=rud > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:24:57 PM WEST Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > > > > On wo, 2021-04-28 at 11:23 +0200, Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - spin coating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I finally tried to build a makeshift spin coater the way Sam > > > > > > > Zeloof > > > > > > > did, by mounting a plastic can on top of a CPU fan (actually a > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > fan from another device I had lying around). I can't say this > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > way to go... the fan is way too weak to spin the can at a > > > > > > meaningful > > > > > > > > > > speed. It is also very hard to center the can exactly, so it > > > > > > wobbles > > > > > > > > > > a lot and that probably reduces the speed even more. Mounting a > > > > > > > die > > > > > > > without a container would allow the fan to spin faster, but > would > > > > > > > likely clog the fan with chemicals in no time. I'll next try my > > > > > > > original idea, to mount the can to an axle that I'll stick > into a > > > > > > > power drill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One thing I did find out is that the coating liquid should be > > > > > > evenly > > > > > > > > > > applied before spinning. It will NOT spread to the whole > surface > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > itself, but rather run to a single direction in a concentrated > > > > > > > stream, probably due to surface tension. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms > first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid. You need to dispense > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > in middle of wafer as liquid will online move outwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun May 2 13:40:10 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:40:10 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] coating / chemicals / litho / strategy In-Reply-To: References: <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> Message-ID: <16042037.Wnjkp1k5AL@harvey> Hey Thomas This is BRILLIANT! I'll go through the electronics now and we'll discuss it in our weekly Mumble session at 6pm UTC (Important, the time is UTC!), so in case you wanna talk about the electronics, feel free drop by on murmur.libresilicon.com then. This immensely cuts down the R&D time, because "all" we've got left to do now is to figure out the stepper mechanics. Cheers -lev On Sunday, May 2, 2021 12:18:48 PM WEST Thomas Parry wrote: > Hi, > > I went down this path about a year ago and created a prototype board for > the DMD chip. I don't really have the bandwidth to take it further at the > moment, but I've just uploaded the design files, maybe it's useful for the > LibreSilicon efforts. > > https://github.com/yrrapt/icfab > > Cheers, > Thomas > > On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 18:08, David Lanzend?rfer > > wrote: > > Hi > > I think this one is more suitable: > > https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLP2000AFQC? > > qs=T3oQrply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D > > > rply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D> > > > > The board is connected through an FQC 42 connector socket, which I'm > > right now unable to find online. > > I guess I've gotta do some more digging on Alibaba and so on, in order > > to get my hands on one of those. > > > > Cheers > > -lev > > > > On Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34:10 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm not sure who would be interested in buying a cheap makeshift > > > spin-coater since you cannot get anywhere with just that, and it's > > > super-easy to make yourself. For somebody who wants to make their own > > > chips, a much more interesting target would IMHO be a development board > > > > for > > > > > the DMD chip, even if it is nothing more than power, capacitors and a > > > pin > > > header for everything else. The DMD chip has an LGA package, and another > > > one I found at TI has a PGA package, so that's a bit tough to solder by > > > hand. There are dev boards available, but they are basically a simple > > > projector (e.g. including optics) [1] -- maybe it is possible to modify > > > that instead of a full projector. > > > > > > [1] > > > > https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLPDLCR2000EVM?qs=BZ > > Be> > > > i1rCqCAQetmBz0G1xQ== > > > > > > Anyway, I can't tell you the model of the fan/motor since it is one of > > > > the > > > > > case fans of the DLP projector I took apart. I'm pretty sure that I can > > > > get > > > > > a better PC case fan for 2? at the next supplier for computer parts. > > > > > > WRT financing, let me repeat that I'm willing to spend money on even the > > > simplest chips, at this point even a single MOSFET, if they prove that > > > > the > > > > > whole idea isn't vaporware. I'm pretty sure we can find more people that > > > feel the same when the first actual device gets posted to Hackaday and > > > similar sites. Also, a Patreon site like [2] may help, but again, only > > > if > > > you can actually present something working (that guy can't). I think Sam > > > Zeloof neglected this too much and didn't give people an easy way to > > > send > > > him money, because I'm convinced he would have gotten a lot of it. > > > > > > [2] https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14363159 > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:52 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > So I've now set up the office here with tables and stuff and could > > > > reproduce > > > > your experiments. > > > > If we know which motor performs ok for building a cheap spin coater, I > > > > could > > > > actually build one a little bit more professionally, by ordering some > > > > of > > > > > > those > > > > motors from Aliexpress. > > > > We could then sell those coaters on eBay and finance LibreSilicon > > > > a bit with it. > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 6:36:11 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid > > > > > > > > > > That did the job. I still think that the RPM is quite low because > > > > > the > > > > > fan > > > > > is too weak, and I might later switch to the power drill to improve > > > > > that, > > > > > but applying the liquid only after the motor is spinning is > > > > definitely > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > You need to dispense liquid in middle of wafer as liquid will > > > > online > > > > > > move > > > > > > > > > outwards. > > > > > > > > > > Obviously :) > > > > > > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > > primer > > > > > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > I only did a test, spinning oil onto a coin. I guess that the primer > > > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > > with wetting and/or sticking to the wafer surface, which wasn't > > > > (yet) a > > > > > > > problem in my test. Anyway, good to know! > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:06 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > > > Exactly. > > > > > > First you've gotta spin up the wafer, and then you've gotta > > > > dispense > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > kind of towards the center, but it's not so critical. > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > > primer first. > > > > https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/unternehmen-de/produkte/~/3M-Silan-G > > > > > > > > las-Primer-Transparent-1-L-Flasche/?N=5002385+3294237313&rt=rud > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:24:57 PM WEST Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > > > > > On wo, 2021-04-28 at 11:23 +0200, Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - spin coating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I finally tried to build a makeshift spin coater the way Sam > > > > > > > > Zeloof > > > > > > > > did, by mounting a plastic can on top of a CPU fan (actually a > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > fan from another device I had lying around). I can't say this > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > way to go... the fan is way too weak to spin the can at a > > > > > > > > meaningful > > > > > > > > > > > > speed. It is also very hard to center the can exactly, so it > > > > > > > > wobbles > > > > > > > > > > > > a lot and that probably reduces the speed even more. Mounting > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > die > > > > > > > > without a container would allow the fan to spin faster, but > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > likely clog the fan with chemicals in no time. I'll next try > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > original idea, to mount the can to an axle that I'll stick > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > power drill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One thing I did find out is that the coating liquid should be > > > > > > > > evenly > > > > > > > > > > > > applied before spinning. It will NOT spread to the whole > > > > surface > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > itself, but rather run to a single direction in a concentrated > > > > > > > > stream, probably due to surface tension. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms > > > > first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid. You need to dispense > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > > > in middle of wafer as liquid will online move outwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun May 2 13:42:19 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:42:19 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] coating / chemicals / litho / strategy In-Reply-To: References: <7466862.mENeaHPDtb@harvey> Message-ID: <28930654.fth75n1iuX@harvey> Hi So my long term strategy is to use a DMD device and then increasingly making the feature sizes smaller and the pixel density higher, as soon as the mechanics has been figured out. In the long run, I might even be able to sell some of those steppers and have nice little side income from it, as well as providing patterning systems for hobbyists as well as the industry. Cheers -lev On Sunday, May 2, 2021 7:17:41 AM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > Hi, > > on a second thought, I'm no longer sure that the projector approach is even > necessary to get some simple results. Real early chips were, IIRC, exposed > through a mask made out of tape on some substrate (articles say vellum, but > Wikipedia is ambiguous on what that even is, but I think any substrate will > do as long as its flat and UV-transparent). AFAIK glass is UVA-transparent, > so it will probably work as a substrate too, at least with that photoresist > I found. Granted, that isn't maskless anymore, but a simple mask should be > rather easy to make that way, it just doesn't scale well to complex masks. > > Scaling the mask down to die size is easy with the optics from the > dismantled projector. As a test, I projected a miniature version of my > cellphone screen onto the table. > > I'll next order some of the photoresist and do some exposure experiments, > including masking with tape. > > Greetings, > Martin > > > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 6:08 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > Hi > > I think this one is more suitable: > > https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLP2000AFQC? > > qs=T3oQrply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D > > > rply3y%252B2%252BSUG%252B1A5CA%3D%3D> > > > > The board is connected through an FQC 42 connector socket, which I'm > > right now unable to find online. > > I guess I've gotta do some more digging on Alibaba and so on, in order > > to get my hands on one of those. > > > > Cheers > > -lev > > > > On Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34:10 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm not sure who would be interested in buying a cheap makeshift > > > spin-coater since you cannot get anywhere with just that, and it's > > > super-easy to make yourself. For somebody who wants to make their own > > > chips, a much more interesting target would IMHO be a development board > > > > for > > > > > the DMD chip, even if it is nothing more than power, capacitors and a > > > pin > > > header for everything else. The DMD chip has an LGA package, and another > > > one I found at TI has a PGA package, so that's a bit tough to solder by > > > hand. There are dev boards available, but they are basically a simple > > > projector (e.g. including optics) [1] -- maybe it is possible to modify > > > that instead of a full projector. > > > > > > [1] > > > > https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/DLPDLCR2000EVM?qs=BZ > > Be> > > > i1rCqCAQetmBz0G1xQ== > > > > > > Anyway, I can't tell you the model of the fan/motor since it is one of > > > > the > > > > > case fans of the DLP projector I took apart. I'm pretty sure that I can > > > > get > > > > > a better PC case fan for 2? at the next supplier for computer parts. > > > > > > WRT financing, let me repeat that I'm willing to spend money on even the > > > simplest chips, at this point even a single MOSFET, if they prove that > > > > the > > > > > whole idea isn't vaporware. I'm pretty sure we can find more people that > > > feel the same when the first actual device gets posted to Hackaday and > > > similar sites. Also, a Patreon site like [2] may help, but again, only > > > if > > > you can actually present something working (that guy can't). I think Sam > > > Zeloof neglected this too much and didn't give people an easy way to > > > send > > > him money, because I'm convinced he would have gotten a lot of it. > > > > > > [2] https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14363159 > > > > > > Greetings, > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 2:52 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > So I've now set up the office here with tables and stuff and could > > > > reproduce > > > > your experiments. > > > > If we know which motor performs ok for building a cheap spin coater, I > > > > could > > > > actually build one a little bit more professionally, by ordering some > > > > of > > > > > > those > > > > motors from Aliexpress. > > > > We could then sell those coaters on eBay and finance LibreSilicon > > > > a bit with it. > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 6:36:11 PM WEST Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid > > > > > > > > > > That did the job. I still think that the RPM is quite low because > > > > > the > > > > > fan > > > > > is too weak, and I might later switch to the power drill to improve > > > > > that, > > > > > but applying the liquid only after the motor is spinning is > > > > definitely > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > > You need to dispense liquid in middle of wafer as liquid will > > > > online > > > > > > move > > > > > > > > > outwards. > > > > > > > > > > Obviously :) > > > > > > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > > primer > > > > > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > I only did a test, spinning oil onto a coin. I guess that the primer > > > > > > > > helps > > > > > > > > > with wetting and/or sticking to the wafer surface, which wasn't > > > > (yet) a > > > > > > > problem in my test. Anyway, good to know! > > > > > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:06 PM David Lanzend?rfer < > > > > > > > > > > leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > > > > > > Exactly. > > > > > > First you've gotta spin up the wafer, and then you've gotta > > > > dispense > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > kind of towards the center, but it's not so critical. > > > > > > I guess, you're experiencing problems because you didn't apply a > > > > > > primer first. > > > > https://www.3mdeutschland.de/3M/de_DE/unternehmen-de/produkte/~/3M-Silan-G > > > > > > > > las-Primer-Transparent-1-L-Flasche/?N=5002385+3294237313&rt=rud > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > -lev > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:24:57 PM WEST Staf Verhaegen wrote: > > > > > > > On wo, 2021-04-28 at 11:23 +0200, Martin Geisse wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - spin coating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I finally tried to build a makeshift spin coater the way Sam > > > > > > > > Zeloof > > > > > > > > did, by mounting a plastic can on top of a CPU fan (actually a > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > fan from another device I had lying around). I can't say this > > > > is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > way to go... the fan is way too weak to spin the can at a > > > > > > > > meaningful > > > > > > > > > > > > speed. It is also very hard to center the can exactly, so it > > > > > > > > wobbles > > > > > > > > > > > > a lot and that probably reduces the speed even more. Mounting > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > die > > > > > > > > without a container would allow the fan to spin faster, but > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > likely clog the fan with chemicals in no time. I'll next try > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > original idea, to mount the can to an axle that I'll stick > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > power drill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One thing I did find out is that the coating liquid should be > > > > > > > > evenly > > > > > > > > > > > > applied before spinning. It will NOT spread to the whole > > > > surface > > > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > itself, but rather run to a single direction in a concentrated > > > > > > > > stream, probably due to surface tension. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I remember correctly the spin coaters used in clean rooms > > > > first > > > > > > spin > > > > > > > > > > > up the wafer and then dispense the liquid. You need to dispense > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > > > in middle of wafer as liquid will online move outwards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > greets, > > > > > > > Staf. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > > > > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon May 3 14:00:41 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 13:00:41 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper optics Message-ID: <41543206.XajtHToaSt@harvey> Hi So Hagen and I have been going through potential candidates for the DMD chips and looking at the interfaces, which are super complex. Anything above 1080p is not usable anymore with a reasonable PCB layouting effort from our side. https://www.ti.com/dlp-chip/display-and-projection/pico-chipsets/getting-started.html Hagen is right now going through the diverse chips and we will discuss his findings next week. Until then, we should already start discussing the lens system. What we need are lenses which make a focus roughly 1 cm away from the lens, I'd say, we're going for a projector design for now, because the micro mirrors still are of a size below our target feature size, so we've got to magnify the pattern. According to the DMD data sheets, a visible UV LED should work just fine with it. https://pt.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OSRAM-Opto-Semiconductors/GD-CSSRM214-ARAT-24-1?qs=55YtniHzbhACdWmyIKRjLg%3D%3D Would be cool to have Shaktor on the mailing list here :-) Cheers -lev From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sat May 8 12:36:45 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 11:36:45 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Stepper electronics and optics Message-ID: <3502363.zOOHpi8zzj@harvey> Hi So Hagen apparently has been going full speed OCD into the selection of components for our stepper, of which the findings we will discuss tomorrow in our weekly Mumble session (murmur.libresilicon.com, 1800Z, -> UTC <-). I've been looking through the data sheet of the controller for the 4k DMD chip[1] and it turns out, that it's already the most suitable micro controller possible. I think we should just try to use the features available in KiCAD, for routing impendance controlled differential line pairs[2]. If those features are good enough for CERN, they should be good enough for us. I already once did successfully DDR3 RAM for an embedded device with KiCAD, so it's possible. I think it's the easiest to just use the controller from Texas Instruments, because the DLPC6540 comes with a USB interface, so we'd basically be done and just have to plug it into the computer used to control the stepping. About the x-y-System, Hagen has been talking about, I'm already working on that end for a while. I ended up with a gear shift design (I guess the Swiss genetics is coming forward again here. Yikes. LOL) and a laser distance measuring system to compensate for missed steps. Cheers -lev [1] https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlpc6540.pdf?ts=1620316149365 [2] https://forum.kicad.info/t/differencial-pair-impedance-calculator/4178 From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sat May 8 13:58:39 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 12:58:39 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Virtual workshop, May 18 Message-ID: <3385465.S8atUUcz6V@harvey> Hi everyone So at the 18th May from 15-16h CEST there will be a virtual workshop happen, organized by NLNet and NG Zero: https://nlnet.nl/news/2021/20210507-NGI-Zero-workshop-open-hardware.html I'll be showing a 10 slide presentation on my strategy of setting up a micro chip foundry in the basement, using glove boxes with a closed loop system. In case you've got some input and ideas on what to also talk about in my 10 minutes, please come forward, I'm looking forward to your input :-) Cheers -lev From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat May 8 14:04:45 2021 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 13:04:45 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Virtual workshop, May 18 In-Reply-To: <3385465.S8atUUcz6V@harvey> References: <3385465.S8atUUcz6V@harvey> Message-ID: On Saturday, May 8, 2021, David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > . > In case you've got some input and ideas on what to also talk about in my > 10 minutes, please come forward, I'm looking forward to your input :-) make sure to emphasise that there is literally noone else in the world doing this type of Libre research. that there may be universities but their focus is academic research, not blowing the doors of of NDAs so that businesses in the EU get sovereign independence when it comes to Silicon ASICs. the purpose of the NGI presentation is to shock the EU into funding Libre business development by making available part of the billion+ EUR grants earmarked for the EU to wake up on Silicon development. l. -- --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sat May 8 15:21:39 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 14:21:39 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Virtual workshop, May 18 In-Reply-To: References: <3385465.S8atUUcz6V@harvey> Message-ID: <2954122.tlsnz1utjh@harvey> Hi > make sure to emphasise that there is literally noone else in the world > doing this type of Libre research. that there may be universities but > their focus is academic research, not blowing the doors of of NDAs so that > businesses in the EU get sovereign independence when it comes to Silicon > ASICs. Got it. I was anyway going to talk a little bit about the idea of implementing that rail guided system a friend of mine back in Hong Kong designed, at some point, and using it first in a microfab with 2 inch wafers and then later scaling things up. I was also thinking about using the way more expensive UV capable DMD chips as soon as we've got the 445nm UV setup working, and then scaling further down, until we come to this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_lithography > the purpose of the NGI presentation is to shock the EU into funding Libre > business development by making available part of the billion+ EUR grants > earmarked for the EU to wake up on Silicon development. OK. So I will go full hard core with R&D proposals in this case, in order to show those folks, what's actually possible, if we could get the funding. Got it. Cheers -lev From lkcl at lkcl.net Sat May 8 16:26:46 2021 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 15:26:46 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Virtual workshop, May 18 In-Reply-To: <2954122.tlsnz1utjh@harvey> References: <3385465.S8atUUcz6V@harvey> <2954122.tlsnz1utjh@harvey> Message-ID: On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 2:21 PM David Lanzend?rfer wrote: > OK. So I will go full hard core with R&D proposals in this case, in order to > show those folks, what's actually possible, if we could get the funding. it's a tricky balance, 10 minutes is not a lot of time, to demonstrate technical knowledge, *and* emphasise that what you're doing is worth paying attention to, know what i mean. i'm going to pre-record the Libre-SOC one and send it to Joost. he has a fibre-optic connection, plus, also, it gives a chance to review and make sure to get everything in, that needs to be said, in the 10 mins. l. From hsank at posteo.de Sat May 15 10:20:31 2021 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 08:20:31 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC Message-ID: <3feb1650-498e-63a7-85ca-b74c92ff5ee2@posteo.de> Hello List! This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: - DMD chips for the Stepper - Glove Box - NLnet (virtual) Workshop - etc. Regards, Hagen. From leviathan at libresilicon.com Sun May 16 00:32:03 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 23:32:03 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <3feb1650-498e-63a7-85ca-b74c92ff5ee2@posteo.de> References: <3feb1650-498e-63a7-85ca-b74c92ff5ee2@posteo.de> Message-ID: <5751022.eQcSDb0lCI@harvey> Hi As you all know, I'm supposed to have a panel discussion on Monday with the folks from NG Zero. I've prepared some slides and would be interested into some feed back. Cheers David On Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:20:31 AM WEST Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > Hello List! > > This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday > > 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. > > Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at > Port 64738, the Channel is IC. > > We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: > - DMD chips for the Stepper > - Glove Box > - NLnet (virtual) Workshop > - etc. > > Regards, > Hagen. > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: slides.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6924317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From martingeisse at googlemail.com Sun May 16 08:12:39 2021 From: martingeisse at googlemail.com (Martin Geisse) Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 08:12:39 +0200 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <5751022.eQcSDb0lCI@harvey> References: <3feb1650-498e-63a7-85ca-b74c92ff5ee2@posteo.de> <5751022.eQcSDb0lCI@harvey> Message-ID: Hi, my 2 cents since I again don't know if I can attend the session: If I was thinking about funding LS, I would have some questions: - how does a 50u-in-a-garage process help establish 1u-in-a-lab? Making sure that the garage process is not a dead end. - will funding help you get back into a lab where you can do CMOS manufacturing (i.e. is money actually the problem here)? If that lab is not INL, which is it? Other than that, you mentioned the open source toolchain. I'm not sure which one you mean, just making sure you have seen this one since knowing about tool development will probably raise the credibility: https://theopenroadproject.org/ https://github.com/The-OpenROAD-Project This toolchain actually worked out of the box and gave me a GDS file for my verilog. With the toolchain from opencircuitdesign I gave up after a week of working around bugs and compilation errors. They are also working together with a tool like Magic called klayout that is actually meant to be used by human beings. Greetings, Martin On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 12:33 AM David Lanzend?rfer < leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote: > Hi > As you all know, I'm supposed to have a panel discussion on Monday with > the > folks from NG Zero. > I've prepared some slides and would be interested into some feed back. > > Cheers > David > > On Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:20:31 AM WEST Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > Hello List! > > > > This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday > > > > 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. > > > > Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at > > Port 64738, the Channel is IC. > > > > We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: > > - DMD chips for the Stepper > > - Glove Box > > - NLnet (virtual) Workshop > > - etc. > > > > Regards, > > Hagen. > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsank at posteo.de Sun May 16 20:16:34 2021 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 18:16:34 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC In-Reply-To: References: <3feb1650-498e-63a7-85ca-b74c92ff5ee2@posteo.de> <5751022.eQcSDb0lCI@harvey> Message-ID: Hello Martin. Well, we got stopped during the 1 micron process by the Hong Kong protests while already verifying our process on a test wafer named PearlRiver. Our man-power is limited, we are happy about any helping hand we can get. So, the relatively new target of an 50 micron process is a intermediate step to attract more developers/people to a silicon manufacturing process at all. We have to spread the knowledge which isn't rocket science. While publishing a quite simple process suitable for basement or garage hopefully we will rise up more skilled people for silicon-base chip-making technology.. Once we reach this 50 micron target, with more help and money, we can go further to our 1 micron target and beyond. And yes, we need money as long as the access to clean rooms has to be paid. I hope this helps. Regards, Hagen. On 5/16/21 8:12 AM, Martin Geisse wrote: > Hi, > > my 2 cents since I again don't know if I can attend the session: > > If I was thinking about funding LS, I would have some questions: > - how does a 50u-in-a-garage process help establish 1u-in-a-lab? Making > sure that the garage process is not a dead end. > - will funding help you get back into a lab where you can do CMOS > manufacturing (i.e. is money actually the problem here)? If that lab is > not INL, which is it? > > Other than that, you mentioned the open source toolchain. I'm not sure > which one you mean, just making sure you have seen this one since > knowing about tool development will probably raise the credibility: > https://theopenroadproject.org/ > https://github.com/The-OpenROAD-Project > This toolchain actually worked out of the box and gave me a GDS file for > my verilog. With the toolchain from opencircuitdesign I gave up after a > week of working around bugs and compilation errors. They are also > working together with a tool like Magic called klayout that is actually > meant to be used by human beings. > > Greetings, > Martin > > > > On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 12:33 AM David Lanzend?rfer > > wrote: > > Hi > As you all know, I'm supposed to have a panel discussion on Monday > with the > folks from NG Zero. > I've prepared some slides and would be interested into some feed back. > > Cheers > David > > On Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:20:31 AM WEST Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > Hello List! > > > > This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday > > > >? ? ? ?2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. > > > > Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server > murmur.libresilicon.com at > > Port 64738, the Channel is IC. > > > > We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: > > - DMD chips for the Stepper > > - Glove Box > > - NLnet (virtual) Workshop > > - etc. > > > > Regards, > > Hagen. > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > From manili.devteam at gmail.com Sun May 16 20:24:44 2021 From: manili.devteam at gmail.com (Mohammad Amin Nili) Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 22:54:44 +0430 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1679B9ED-BF78-4976-9075-D19781467F6E@gmail.com> Guys is it possible to share the session on YouTube? Sent from my iPhone > On May 16, 2021, at 10:47 PM, Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > ?Hello Martin. > > Well, we got stopped during the 1 micron process by the Hong Kong > protests while already verifying our process on a test wafer named > PearlRiver. > > Our man-power is limited, we are happy about any helping hand we can > get. So, the relatively new target of an 50 micron process is a > intermediate step to attract more developers/people to a silicon > manufacturing process at all. We have to spread the knowledge which > isn't rocket science. While publishing a quite simple process suitable > for basement or garage hopefully we will rise up more skilled people for > silicon-base chip-making technology.. > > Once we reach this 50 micron target, with more help and money, we can go > further to our 1 micron target and beyond. And yes, we need money as > long as the access to clean rooms has to be paid. > > I hope this helps. > > Regards, > Hagen. > >> On 5/16/21 8:12 AM, Martin Geisse wrote: >> Hi, >> >> my 2 cents since I again don't know if I can attend the session: >> >> If I was thinking about funding LS, I would have some questions: >> - how does a 50u-in-a-garage process help establish 1u-in-a-lab? Making >> sure that the garage process is not a dead end. >> - will funding help you get back into a lab where you can do CMOS >> manufacturing (i.e. is money actually the problem here)? If that lab is >> not INL, which is it? >> >> Other than that, you mentioned the open source toolchain. I'm not sure >> which one you mean, just making sure you have seen this one since >> knowing about tool development will probably raise the credibility: >> https://theopenroadproject.org/ >> https://github.com/The-OpenROAD-Project >> This toolchain actually worked out of the box and gave me a GDS file for >> my verilog. With the toolchain from opencircuitdesign I gave up after a >> week of working around bugs and compilation errors. They are also >> working together with a tool like Magic called klayout that is actually >> meant to be used by human beings. >> >> Greetings, >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 12:33 AM David Lanzend?rfer >> > wrote: >> >> Hi >> As you all know, I'm supposed to have a panel discussion on Monday >> with the >> folks from NG Zero. >> I've prepared some slides and would be interested into some feed back. >> >> Cheers >> David >> >>> On Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:20:31 AM WEST Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: >>> Hello List! >>> >>> This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday >>> >>> 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. >>> >>> Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server >> murmur.libresilicon.com at >>> Port 64738, the Channel is IC. >>> >>> We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: >>> - DMD chips for the Stepper >>> - Glove Box >>> - NLnet (virtual) Workshop >>> - etc. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Hagen. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list >>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com >> >>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com >> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers >> > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon May 17 00:42:15 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 23:42:15 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1679B9ED-BF78-4976-9075-D19781467F6E@gmail.com> References: <1679B9ED-BF78-4976-9075-D19781467F6E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3238386.0i5HKsWc88@harvey> Hi You can either watch it live or watch the recording afterwards. That's the URL where the video will be available: https://bbb.tbm.tudelft.nl/streams/joo-a5l-sau-zuu Cheers On Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:24:44 PM WEST Mohammad Amin Nili wrote: > Guys is it possible to share the session on YouTube? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 16, 2021, at 10:47 PM, Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > > > > ?Hello Martin. > > > > Well, we got stopped during the 1 micron process by the Hong Kong > > protests while already verifying our process on a test wafer named > > PearlRiver. > > > > Our man-power is limited, we are happy about any helping hand we can > > get. So, the relatively new target of an 50 micron process is a > > intermediate step to attract more developers/people to a silicon > > manufacturing process at all. We have to spread the knowledge which > > isn't rocket science. While publishing a quite simple process suitable > > for basement or garage hopefully we will rise up more skilled people for > > silicon-base chip-making technology.. > > > > Once we reach this 50 micron target, with more help and money, we can go > > further to our 1 micron target and beyond. And yes, we need money as > > long as the access to clean rooms has to be paid. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Regards, > > Hagen. > > > >> On 5/16/21 8:12 AM, Martin Geisse wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> my 2 cents since I again don't know if I can attend the session: > >> > >> If I was thinking about funding LS, I would have some questions: > >> - how does a 50u-in-a-garage process help establish 1u-in-a-lab? Making > >> sure that the garage process is not a dead end. > >> - will funding help you get back into a lab where you can do CMOS > >> manufacturing (i.e. is money actually the problem here)? If that lab is > >> not INL, which is it? > >> > >> Other than that, you mentioned the open source toolchain. I'm not sure > >> which one you mean, just making sure you have seen this one since > >> knowing about tool development will probably raise the credibility: > >> https://theopenroadproject.org/ > >> https://github.com/The-OpenROAD-Project > >> This toolchain actually worked out of the box and gave me a GDS file for > >> my verilog. With the toolchain from opencircuitdesign I gave up after a > >> week of working around bugs and compilation errors. They are also > >> working together with a tool like Magic called klayout that is actually > >> meant to be used by human beings. > >> > >> Greetings, > >> Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 12:33 AM David Lanzend?rfer > >> > >> > wrote: > >> Hi > >> As you all know, I'm supposed to have a panel discussion on Monday > >> with the > >> folks from NG Zero. > >> I've prepared some slides and would be interested into some feed back. > >> > >> Cheers > >> David > >> > >>> On Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:20:31 AM WEST Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote: > >>> Hello List! > >>> > >>> This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday > >>> > >>> 2021-05-16 @ 18:00 UTC. > >>> > >>> Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server > >>> > >> murmur.libresilicon.com at > >>> > >>> Port 64738, the Channel is IC. > >>> > >>> We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: > >>> - DMD chips for the Stepper > >>> - Glove Box > >>> - NLnet (virtual) Workshop > >>> - etc. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Hagen. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list > >>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list > >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > >> > >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list > >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers > > _______________________________________________ > Libresilicon-developers mailing list > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers From leviathan at libresilicon.com Mon May 17 19:02:21 2021 From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=) Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 18:02:21 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Sputtering Message-ID: <13627428.7uYqSm6uti@harvey> Hi everyone So yesterday in the meeting, we came across the problem, that we need to deposit metal onto our silicon oxide. There already has been progress from hobbyists on building home made Magnetron sputtering setups: https://transmitter.ieee.org/makerproject/view/9ce06 I think I will replicate this project (and others like it) and bring it into a form, in which I can use it in my garage. for depositing a Nickel layer. Opinions? Cheers -lev From lkcl at lkcl.net Wed May 19 21:31:06 2021 From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton) Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 20:31:06 +0100 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Open... (and Libre) Silicon ASIC Conference idea by Matt Venn Message-ID: https://forms.gle/BdLWdyryLJbj8kY9A https://libre-soc.org/conferences/mattvennidea2021/?updated https://twitter.com/matthewvenn/status/1395005398046978048 Matt Venn has suggested the idea of an "Open Source" ASIC conference. bless him, it's a fantastic idea, my only concern being that the emphasis on "Open" will end up with the same completely unintentional exclusion caused by, just picking one example, OpenPOWER NA 2020 selecting slack as the sole exclusive attendee discussion forum. as a result it was a deeply disturbing psychological experience to present at, being completely cut off and isolated from the other speakers and attendees, only "rolled on" to give an actual talk then "rolled off" back in the box, silenced by the non-diverse non-inclusive accidental choice of technology. if you believe the idea to be a good one - and after the excitement that was caused by David's "Reprap ASIC" presentation at NGI Forum 2021 yesterday - i think it is, please do spread the word and emphasise to people to advocate for *Libre* inclusive hosting technology. the most obvious answer there is "follow what FOSDEM2021 and Debconf or XDC2020 do", they all used jitsi in some fashion. FOSDEM and Debconf also use matrix/element.io, XDC2020 used jitsi plus IRC plus a jitsi youtube live plugin. if you choose not to use google forms, you can ask someone to enter the responses for you, i am happy to do that, please email me directly. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hsank at posteo.de Fri May 21 08:13:18 2021 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Fri, 21 May 2021 06:13:18 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-23 @ 18:00 UTC Message-ID: <16d966b9-43aa-cd61-38a8-cf30a510eb75@posteo.de> Hello List! This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday 2021-05-23 @ 18:00 UTC. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before: - Glove Box - technology issues - etc Regards, Hagen. From hsank at posteo.de Sat May 29 13:07:25 2021 From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI) Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 11:07:25 +0000 Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday 2021-05-30 @ 18:00 UTC Message-ID: <22404698-6f52-b73c-393d-4cdc00cedc80@posteo.de> Hello List! This is our weekly announcement for the next Mumble Sessions on Sunday 2021-05-30 @ 18:00 UTC. Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at Port 64738, the Channel is IC. We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before. Regards, Hagen.