From hsank at posteo.de  Fri Jan  7 17:21:07 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Fri,  7 Jan 2022 16:21:07 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday
	2022-01-09 @ 18:00 UTC
Message-ID: <dbbb6ae8-0710-eded-2cf1-f8f17b696d06@posteo.de>

Happy New Year to everybody!

The pandemic situation goes now into the third year :-o I hope, you are
all fine and healthy..

.. and we can meet us virtually in our next weekly Mumble Sessions on Sunday

	2022-01-09 @ 18:00 UTC.

Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at
Port 64738, the Channel is IC.

We like to catch-up our topics from mumble sessions before.

Regards,
Hagen.

From pg at futureware.at  Mon Jan 10 16:03:38 2022
From: pg at futureware.at (Philipp =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FChring?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 16:03:38 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>

Hi,

Perhaps this helps:
https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen

Best regards,
Philipp

From ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de  Mon Jan 10 19:58:40 2022
From: ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de (Ludwig Jaffe)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:58:40 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
Message-ID: <09DA7737-F2A7-4F0C-8E48-190A9754193E@openhardware.de>

For what reason?
Hailing the "gods" of covid19?


On January 10, 2022 4:03:38 PM GMT+01:00, "Philipp G?hring" <pg at futureware.at> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Perhaps this helps:
>https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
>
>Best regards,
>Philipp
>_______________________________________________
>Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 01:47:07 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 01:47:07 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
Message-ID: <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I wish a happy new year. Sorry for being absent on Sunday. The best way 
to start a year is "root inode is not a directory"... I had backups of 
important things, so it is more or less recovered now. Can anyone 
summarize to me what was talked about on Sunday?

On 2022. 01. 10. 16:03, Philipp G?hring wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Perhaps this helps:
> https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
>
> Best regards,
> Philipp
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 14 13:48:06 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:48:06 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
 <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4389739.ohzsCYNMLM@harvey>

Happy new year Ferenc!

Yikes... corrupted file systems are the worst, I'm glad you could avoid severe 
data loss.
So, I'm right now preparing the slides for recording my talk for the FOSDEM.
so that I can record it and upload it before Monday.
I'm just going to use Jitsi and record the session, if anyone on here likes to 
join the stream, we could have it more interactive.
About air filters: The art is to have multiple stages of filtration, to not 
use up the high grade filter too quickly, just with water filtratation, where
you have multiple layers of rocks, sand and so on.
I'm touch on this in my slides as well :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:47:07 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I wish a happy new year. Sorry for being absent on Sunday. The best way
> to start a year is "root inode is not a directory"... I had backups of
> important things, so it is more or less recovered now. Can anyone
> summarize to me what was talked about on Sunday?
> 
> On 2022. 01. 10. 16:03, Philipp G?hring wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Perhaps this helps:
> > https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Philipp
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
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(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 14 20:45:09 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 19:45:09 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
 <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1872526.J43F9MZzV8@harvey>

Hello Ferenc
Little update: I found this manufacturer, which already produces clean room 
shipping containers, and they appear to be located in Hungary!!
https://kleanlabs.com/products/mobile-clean-room-container
Could you maybe try contacting them and ask whether they wanna collaborate
with us?

Cheers
-lev

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:47:07 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I wish a happy new year. Sorry for being absent on Sunday. The best way
> to start a year is "root inode is not a directory"... I had backups of
> important things, so it is more or less recovered now. Can anyone
> summarize to me what was talked about on Sunday?
> 
> On 2022. 01. 10. 16:03, Philipp G?hring wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Perhaps this helps:
> > https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Philipp
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From hsank at posteo.de  Sat Jan 15 08:25:53 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 07:25:53 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday
	2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC
Message-ID: <49865420-c0f6-7b05-4465-231eac6141d7@posteo.de>

Hello List!

This is our weekly announcement for our next Mumble Sessions on Sunday

	2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC.

Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at
Port 64738, the Channel is IC.

We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before.

Regards,
Hagen.

From ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de  Sat Jan 15 19:27:37 2022
From: ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de (Ludwig Jaffe)
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 19:27:37 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <1872526.J43F9MZzV8@harvey>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
 <b5ce19b8-d496-930c-f9bb-e3df24d7ba42@gmail.com> <1872526.J43F9MZzV8@harvey>
Message-ID: <41EDA36E-AEA7-4BDD-99B6-C261491615FB@openhardware.de>

Travel to hungary to have a look...

On January 14, 2022 8:45:09 PM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>Hello Ferenc
>Little update: I found this manufacturer, which already produces clean room 
>shipping containers, and they appear to be located in Hungary!!
>https://kleanlabs.com/products/mobile-clean-room-container
>Could you maybe try contacting them and ask whether they wanna collaborate
>with us?
>
>Cheers
>-lev
>
>On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:47:07 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>> 
>> I wish a happy new year. Sorry for being absent on Sunday. The best way
>> to start a year is "root inode is not a directory"... I had backups of
>> important things, so it is more or less recovered now. Can anyone
>> summarize to me what was talked about on Sunday?
>> 
>> On 2022. 01. 10. 16:03, Philipp G?hring wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > 
>> > Perhaps this helps:
>> > https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
>> > 
>> > Best regards,
>> > Philipp
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>
>
>-- 
>(\__/)
>(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
>(")_(")
>Copy and paste Bunny into your
>signature to help him gain world domination
>
>_______________________________________________
>Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 18 06:07:44 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 05:07:44 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Air filter
In-Reply-To: <41EDA36E-AEA7-4BDD-99B6-C261491615FB@openhardware.de>
References: <WorldClient-F202201101603.AA03380236@futureware.at>
 <1872526.J43F9MZzV8@harvey>
 <41EDA36E-AEA7-4BDD-99B6-C261491615FB@openhardware.de>
Message-ID: <4008472.sjR0jFHrHG@harvey>

Although I actually would love to go to Hungary and have some of this classic 
Hungarian Borscht, because I once tried the family recipe my Hungarian granpa 
left us, and I finally wanna find out whether I did it right, or whether it's 
even better when done right, but I think I'll post pone that until... well... 
it's not winter anymore :-)

On Saturday, January 15, 2022 6:27:37 PM WET Ludwig Jaffe wrote:
> Travel to hungary to have a look...
> 
> On January 14, 2022 8:45:09 PM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer" 
<leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >Hello Ferenc
> >Little update: I found this manufacturer, which already produces clean room
> >shipping containers, and they appear to be located in Hungary!!
> >https://kleanlabs.com/products/mobile-clean-room-container
> >Could you maybe try contacting them and ask whether they wanna collaborate
> >with us?
> >
> >Cheers
> >-lev
> >
> >On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:47:07 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Hello Everyone,
> >> 
> >> I wish a happy new year. Sorry for being absent on Sunday. The best way
> >> to start a year is "root inode is not a directory"... I had backups of
> >> important things, so it is more or less recovered now. Can anyone
> >> summarize to me what was talked about on Sunday?
> >> 
> >> On 2022. 01. 10. 16:03, Philipp G?hring wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> > 
> >> > Perhaps this helps:
> >> > https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-583039-luftfilter_bauen
> >> > 
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Philipp
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 18 06:09:38 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 05:09:38 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Opinion on background music in
	videos
Message-ID: <4368882.t10CV57ruB@harvey>

Hi
What's your overall stance on Creative Commons background music in the 
background to make the presentation less dry?
I just got a hang on cutting and I'm tempted to throw some background
tune in :D
I know the answer is probably "NO!" but I figured I ask anyway xD

Cheers
-lev
-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de  Tue Jan 18 08:15:00 2022
From: ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de (Ludwig Jaffe)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 08:15:00 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Opinion on background music in
 videos
In-Reply-To: <4368882.t10CV57ruB@harvey>
References: <4368882.t10CV57ruB@harvey>
Message-ID: <9654E29D-C639-485B-9843-AA0832E21236@openhardware.de>

"Music" is for stupids.

Radio stations use this trick to avoid the stupids zaping away while they the talk to prof mr.know

R:
Mr.Know, you are the expert on global warming, you are prof at the MIT, an you hold a doctorate in chemistry, physics, astrophysics, mathematics and medicine.
K:
Yes thanks, and the doctorate in medicine was a piece of cake.
R:
Please tell us how gloval warming works
K: Yes sure, solar radiation in infrared band, absorbtion .. 2minutes
R: Now lets have some music 
K: Yes sure
R: 10 minutes rick astley: "Never wanna give you up"
People: .. Seems interesting, ok but what is a spectrum?
R:
Please tell us how global warming works
K: Yes sure, to summarize what I told before on solar radiation in infrared band, absorbtion .. 2minutes
The Spectrum of energy waves is a concept of ..
R: Now lets have some music 
K: Yes sure
R: 10 minutes rick astley: "Never wanna give you up"
P: holy shit they interrupt Mr knowledge all the time, I throw in a CD on advanced propaganda, political tactics or how to be successful in politics and your way to the top  ..

To sum this up, music does not fit a "scientific" presentation.
So one understands it an listens, or one leaves the room.
Did you have piano music in university while they talk about maths or charm quarks?

So music is a bad idea while providing a dry  lecture.
If you want music take open headphones and listen to the recorder fight of elementary school A vs. elementary school B (they call it a recorder concert), but make sure that nobody else notices a sound.

Cheers,

LuJa





On January 18, 2022 6:09:38 AM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>Hi
>What's your overall stance on Creative Commons background music in the 
>background to make the presentation less dry?
>I just got a hang on cutting and I'm tempted to throw some background
>tune in :D
>I know the answer is probably "NO!" but I figured I ask anyway xD
>
>Cheers
>-lev
>-- 
>(\__/)
>(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
>(")_(")
>Copy and paste Bunny into your
>signature to help him gain world domination
>
>_______________________________________________
>Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 19:32:42 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 19:32:42 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday
 2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC
In-Reply-To: <49865420-c0f6-7b05-4465-231eac6141d7@posteo.de>
References: <49865420-c0f6-7b05-4465-231eac6141d7@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <79caadc2-743d-6625-7277-65d2172b8e90@gmail.com>

Hello David, Hello List,

Maybe this message is late, but anyway. I had some time to review the 
slides in-depth. At the general sense, I feel that the technology steps 
and the machines are a bit over-represented, or more precisely, other 
aspects of the project are under-represented. The other aspects of the 
project (roadmaps, LS standard cell library and compiler, SOC and MCU 
plans, 555, that is, what we did in the previous ~~3-4 years) should 
also be shown. Without this, it feels a bit like a Christmas wishlist 
with a BTC address.

I also have the following specific remarks:

First, let's, in thought, take apart the "Goal" section: we assume that 
there are two kinds of audience there: big players and small players, 
with the delimiting factor is whether one can/'t afford to set up one's 
own production (CMP: 6kUSD, diffusion furnace 5kUSD, CVD, sputter, RIE, 
litho, cleanbox/cleanroom, etc. Altogether let's say 50kUSD. Plus the 
means of getting HF, TMAH, H2O2, H2SO4 and their friends. I mean, 
legally.). For the big players, the question is this:

"I am a fab owner or a fabless designer with existing contracts to fabs. 
Why should I spend 50kUSD on developing a common process? What is, among 
the listed problems, that I cannot solve for myself otherwise without 
it? Supply shortage? The EU right now bombards established european fabs 
with EUR 145 bn for process upgrades and capacity expansion. 
Transparency, hidden backdoors, vendors spying on consumers? No problem, 
we big-tech and governments are the beneficiaries of this. Just let's 
have the key. Vendor lock-in? Monopolistic playoff of overpricing? As a 
fab, why shall I be sad about that? As a customer, I don't care: as long 
as it affects me and my competitors equally, I can charge the overprice 
to my end-users without risk. Are IP laws, export control, etc. 
weaponized? That's we meant them for... " As for NDAs hindering 
cooperation, that's not really true, at least not on this scale. It is 
more-or-less usual that European companies, behind the NDA wall, 
co-developing processes, or cross-licensing them (e.g. I know an 
instance, where an European automotive company I cannot name here 
cooperated with an european semiconductor manufacturer to develop a 
process for power transistors, on the condition that then both will 
cross-license it and devices designed on it and manufacture them in 
their own fabs). Not to mention the approach of big players to 
open-source: "We outsource the sub-problems to the open-source community 
while holding key elements back, let them solve it for gratis, then we 
siphon back the results and recombine it with the held-back part into a 
commercial product for our profit."

The question of the small player is this: "I am a small startup or a 
hobbyist or a researcher with inadequate funding or institutional 
background or just a casual user who want to invoke freedom #1 (the 
right to modify) on an open-source CPU in my laptop, or etc. I have, and 
presumably will have, no provision for getting the needed devices or the 
authorization to procure and use the needed materials, or I am a HDL 
simulation guru with no experience/expertise in physical manufacturing. 
Setting up manufacturing for myself is simply infeasible and/or 
overkill. My problem is not vendor lock-in, but vendor lock-out: I don't 
want to order one million pieces plus a maskset for 500k USD, so 
everyone slams the door at me. So what is my benefit from a common 
technology? Why shall I invest financially or otherwise? Semiconductor 
manufacturers won't implement it as eliminating vendor lock-in is 
against their business model, and even if vertically integrated 
companies implement it in their own fabs, they will reserve it for 
in-house production of their products, as it is now. The key problem is 
that 1) manufacturing is not flexible enough, 2) even if a more flexible 
AND cost-effective means would exist, no-one would offer it to the 
general public."

In my opinion, both of these, but at least one of them, must be 
addressed somehow in the slides and the talk, and not waiting for the 
audience to ask these questions.

Second, I would remove the wiki's link, at least for now and emphasize 
the Mumble and the mailinglist. Reason: the wiki wasn't touched since it 
was set up, the last commit in the git repo is 9 months old, and the 
website is still stalled with 2018 news. If I would ask for donations, I 
would call attention to what we do and not what we don't.

Finally, a remark that reaches beyond the scope of the talk topic, about 
the entire BTC donation thing. Rectifying it is not possible nor 
expected in the remaining time, but I consider it unavoidable on the 
long term. Also this is a rather sensitive issue, so no insult to anyone 
is intended.

Back in 2020, almost 2 years ago, it was planned that a foundation is to 
be established in the EU. The project applied for an NLNet fund, which 
seemed to be granted at first, but it did not materialize. The apparent 
problem is that they didn't want to transfer to a private bank account. 
It has to be understood that the way western economy works is that there 
is a swarm of bigger and smaller economic entities, and everyone wants 
to get money out of everyone else in all conceivable ways (and expects 
everyone else to do so). The dynamics of this swarm is governed by 
bilateral legally binding and enforceable contracts, either explicit 
(written) or implicit (buying a loaf of bread in the corner shop) that 
guarantees safety of investment for both parties. Someone will pay money 
to someone else only if there are concrete terms the payer expects in 
return, and the payer is assured by law or contract that the other party 
will deliver or the money can be sued back. Similarly, the vendor will 
give a product away only if he is assured that the buyer will pay for it 
(i.e. the buyer has adequate funds to buy the item and the payment can 
be enforced). The way that John Privateperson Doe meets the CEO, CTO or 
C-whatever-O of a company in private in a coffee shop because He Has A 
Lucrative Business Idea (R) (C) (TM) simply does not work. Of course, 
this does not entirely rule out donations. But when someone donates, one 
expects that the donation goes to a place that is accountable. If you 
get a brochure of an animal welfare or whatever group with a registered 
foundation's bank account, you may consider a donation. If a 
never-seen-before guy on the street unsolicitedly goes to you and says 
"I am raising funds for the local animal shelter, I accept cash (or BTC) 
only, I give no receipt", you just go to the other side of the street. 
Indeed, all significant open-source projects (Mozilla, the Linux kernel, 
Debian, VLC) have some legally tangible entity behind themselves, and 
not just by coincidence. Would-be sponsors and suppliers are willing to 
either invest, donate or deal with an entity that they can contract 
with, that gives them assurance of how the money will be used (via a 
contract or the organization's statute), and that in case of trouble, 
liability can be enforced (e.g. LLCs in Hungary have a publicly defined 
sum to which their liability is limited that can be checked by anyone, 
and that sum is required to be always kept deposited in a bank by law). 
I, however, have the observation that we have an aversion to any sort of 
legally binding structure (registering a foundation, approaching others 
"via the front door" and not via personal contacts, accepting government 
or NGO funds, ...). On the long term, in my opinion, it will be 
unavoidable to set up such an arrangement, if we want anyone we expect 
to do business with us to take us serious.

Regards,

Ferenc


On 1/15/22 08:25, Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> Hello List!
>
> This is our weekly announcement for our next Mumble Sessions on Sunday
>
> 	2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC.
>
> Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at
> Port 64738, the Channel is IC.
>
> We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before.
>
> Regards,
> Hagen.
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 18 21:46:45 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 20:46:45 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday
 2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC
In-Reply-To: <79caadc2-743d-6625-7277-65d2172b8e90@gmail.com>
References: <49865420-c0f6-7b05-4465-231eac6141d7@posteo.de>
 <79caadc2-743d-6625-7277-65d2172b8e90@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2103219.qPn2xf6zQc@harvey>

OK
I create some slides adressing it and cutting it into the video

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 6:32:42 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello David, Hello List,
> 
> Maybe this message is late, but anyway. I had some time to review the
> slides in-depth. At the general sense, I feel that the technology steps
> and the machines are a bit over-represented, or more precisely, other
> aspects of the project are under-represented. The other aspects of the
> project (roadmaps, LS standard cell library and compiler, SOC and MCU
> plans, 555, that is, what we did in the previous ~~3-4 years) should
> also be shown. Without this, it feels a bit like a Christmas wishlist
> with a BTC address.
> 
> I also have the following specific remarks:
> 
> First, let's, in thought, take apart the "Goal" section: we assume that
> there are two kinds of audience there: big players and small players,
> with the delimiting factor is whether one can/'t afford to set up one's
> own production (CMP: 6kUSD, diffusion furnace 5kUSD, CVD, sputter, RIE,
> litho, cleanbox/cleanroom, etc. Altogether let's say 50kUSD. Plus the
> means of getting HF, TMAH, H2O2, H2SO4 and their friends. I mean,
> legally.). For the big players, the question is this:
> 
> "I am a fab owner or a fabless designer with existing contracts to fabs.
> Why should I spend 50kUSD on developing a common process? What is, among
> the listed problems, that I cannot solve for myself otherwise without
> it? Supply shortage? The EU right now bombards established european fabs
> with EUR 145 bn for process upgrades and capacity expansion.
> Transparency, hidden backdoors, vendors spying on consumers? No problem,
> we big-tech and governments are the beneficiaries of this. Just let's
> have the key. Vendor lock-in? Monopolistic playoff of overpricing? As a
> fab, why shall I be sad about that? As a customer, I don't care: as long
> as it affects me and my competitors equally, I can charge the overprice
> to my end-users without risk. Are IP laws, export control, etc.
> weaponized? That's we meant them for... " As for NDAs hindering
> cooperation, that's not really true, at least not on this scale. It is
> more-or-less usual that European companies, behind the NDA wall,
> co-developing processes, or cross-licensing them (e.g. I know an
> instance, where an European automotive company I cannot name here
> cooperated with an european semiconductor manufacturer to develop a
> process for power transistors, on the condition that then both will
> cross-license it and devices designed on it and manufacture them in
> their own fabs). Not to mention the approach of big players to
> open-source: "We outsource the sub-problems to the open-source community
> while holding key elements back, let them solve it for gratis, then we
> siphon back the results and recombine it with the held-back part into a
> commercial product for our profit."
> 
> The question of the small player is this: "I am a small startup or a
> hobbyist or a researcher with inadequate funding or institutional
> background or just a casual user who want to invoke freedom #1 (the
> right to modify) on an open-source CPU in my laptop, or etc. I have, and
> presumably will have, no provision for getting the needed devices or the
> authorization to procure and use the needed materials, or I am a HDL
> simulation guru with no experience/expertise in physical manufacturing.
> Setting up manufacturing for myself is simply infeasible and/or
> overkill. My problem is not vendor lock-in, but vendor lock-out: I don't
> want to order one million pieces plus a maskset for 500k USD, so
> everyone slams the door at me. So what is my benefit from a common
> technology? Why shall I invest financially or otherwise? Semiconductor
> manufacturers won't implement it as eliminating vendor lock-in is
> against their business model, and even if vertically integrated
> companies implement it in their own fabs, they will reserve it for
> in-house production of their products, as it is now. The key problem is
> that 1) manufacturing is not flexible enough, 2) even if a more flexible
> AND cost-effective means would exist, no-one would offer it to the
> general public."
> 
> In my opinion, both of these, but at least one of them, must be
> addressed somehow in the slides and the talk, and not waiting for the
> audience to ask these questions.
> 
> Second, I would remove the wiki's link, at least for now and emphasize
> the Mumble and the mailinglist. Reason: the wiki wasn't touched since it
> was set up, the last commit in the git repo is 9 months old, and the
> website is still stalled with 2018 news. If I would ask for donations, I
> would call attention to what we do and not what we don't.
> 
> Finally, a remark that reaches beyond the scope of the talk topic, about
> the entire BTC donation thing. Rectifying it is not possible nor
> expected in the remaining time, but I consider it unavoidable on the
> long term. Also this is a rather sensitive issue, so no insult to anyone
> is intended.
> 
> Back in 2020, almost 2 years ago, it was planned that a foundation is to
> be established in the EU. The project applied for an NLNet fund, which
> seemed to be granted at first, but it did not materialize. The apparent
> problem is that they didn't want to transfer to a private bank account.
> It has to be understood that the way western economy works is that there
> is a swarm of bigger and smaller economic entities, and everyone wants
> to get money out of everyone else in all conceivable ways (and expects
> everyone else to do so). The dynamics of this swarm is governed by
> bilateral legally binding and enforceable contracts, either explicit
> (written) or implicit (buying a loaf of bread in the corner shop) that
> guarantees safety of investment for both parties. Someone will pay money
> to someone else only if there are concrete terms the payer expects in
> return, and the payer is assured by law or contract that the other party
> will deliver or the money can be sued back. Similarly, the vendor will
> give a product away only if he is assured that the buyer will pay for it
> (i.e. the buyer has adequate funds to buy the item and the payment can
> be enforced). The way that John Privateperson Doe meets the CEO, CTO or
> C-whatever-O of a company in private in a coffee shop because He Has A
> Lucrative Business Idea (R) (C) (TM) simply does not work. Of course,
> this does not entirely rule out donations. But when someone donates, one
> expects that the donation goes to a place that is accountable. If you
> get a brochure of an animal welfare or whatever group with a registered
> foundation's bank account, you may consider a donation. If a
> never-seen-before guy on the street unsolicitedly goes to you and says
> "I am raising funds for the local animal shelter, I accept cash (or BTC)
> only, I give no receipt", you just go to the other side of the street.
> Indeed, all significant open-source projects (Mozilla, the Linux kernel,
> Debian, VLC) have some legally tangible entity behind themselves, and
> not just by coincidence. Would-be sponsors and suppliers are willing to
> either invest, donate or deal with an entity that they can contract
> with, that gives them assurance of how the money will be used (via a
> contract or the organization's statute), and that in case of trouble,
> liability can be enforced (e.g. LLCs in Hungary have a publicly defined
> sum to which their liability is limited that can be checked by anyone,
> and that sum is required to be always kept deposited in a bank by law).
> I, however, have the observation that we have an aversion to any sort of
> legally binding structure (registering a foundation, approaching others
> "via the front door" and not via personal contacts, accepting government
> or NGO funds, ...). On the long term, in my opinion, it will be
> unavoidable to set up such an arrangement, if we want anyone we expect
> to do business with us to take us serious.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/15/22 08:25, Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> > Hello List!
> > 
> > This is our weekly announcement for our next Mumble Sessions on Sunday
> > 
> > 	2022-01-16 @ 18:00 UTC.
> > 
> > Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at
> > Port 64738, the Channel is IC.
> > 
> > We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Hagen.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
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(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Thu Jan 20 08:30:48 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 07:30:48 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
Message-ID: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>

Hi
Here's the video...
Took me three days... in some takes I'm so exhausted that I can't even talk 
anymore and sound as if I'd be drunk, in others I'm nearly crying... BUT
I'm finally done recording and cutting everything! YES!

Please leave me a like :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1P83oO57k&ab_channel=TheLeviathan

Cheers
-lev


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Thu Jan 20 08:49:23 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 07:49:23 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
Message-ID: <2142908.DPPgRXSXWR@harvey>

For some reason YouTube totally f-ed up my webcam resolution during upload...
The uploaded video on the FOSDEM website has a better resolution.

Enjoy anyway :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:30:48 AM WET David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> Here's the video...
> Took me three days... in some takes I'm so exhausted that I can't even talk
> anymore and sound as if I'd be drunk, in others I'm nearly crying... BUT
> I'm finally done recording and cutting everything! YES!
> 
> Please leave me a like :D
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1P83oO57k&ab_channel=TheLeviathan
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 13:00:01 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:00:01 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
Message-ID: <7fbc8732-4371-4a39-26cc-9f40c6b21af0@gmail.com>

Hello David,


Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID 
or creditcard to google?

Regards,

Ferenc

On 1/20/22 08:30, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> Here's the video...
> Took me three days... in some takes I'm so exhausted that I can't even talk
> anymore and sound as if I'd be drunk, in others I'm nearly crying... BUT
> I'm finally done recording and cutting everything! YES!
>
> Please leave me a like :D
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1P83oO57k&ab_channel=TheLeviathan
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

From luke.leighton at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 13:04:20 2022
From: luke.leighton at gmail.com (lkcl)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:04:20 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <7fbc8732-4371-4a39-26cc-9f40c6b21af0@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <7fbc8732-4371-4a39-26cc-9f40c6b21af0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>



On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger" <eegerferenc at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello David,
>
>
>Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID 
>or creditcard to google?

that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/

l.

From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 13:11:12 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:11:12 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <7fbc8732-4371-4a39-26cc-9f40c6b21af0@gmail.com>
 <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64c66462-36b7-ae5c-95e2-a7bbe615d0fd@gmail.com>

The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented. If 
we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and 
distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age 
restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying 
personal information to everywhere...

On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
>
> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger" <eegerferenc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello David,
>>
>>
>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID
>> or creditcard to google?
> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
>
> l.
>

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Thu Jan 20 16:50:24 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:50:24 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <64c66462-36b7-ae5c-95e2-a7bbe615d0fd@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>
 <64c66462-36b7-ae5c-95e2-a7bbe615d0fd@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>

I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and 
dangerous stuff.
It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link

Cheers
-lev

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented. If
> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> personal information to everywhere...
> 
> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> > On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger" <eegerferenc at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> >> Hello David,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID
> >> or creditcard to google?
> > 
> > that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> > https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> > 
> > l.


From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 17:05:19 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:05:19 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>
 <64c66462-36b7-ae5c-95e2-a7bbe615d0fd@gmail.com> <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
Message-ID: <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

"I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical 
processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be 
dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I 
think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository 
hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com 
domain.

Regards,

Ferenc

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin

On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> dangerous stuff.
> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented. If
>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
>> personal information to everywhere...
>>
>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger" <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>> Hello David,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID
>>>> or creditcard to google?
>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
>>>
>>> l.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Thu Jan 20 18:37:29 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:37:29 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
 <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>

Hi
I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my logo.
My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my channel,
and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree around, so I
blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)

This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250

Cheers
-lev

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
> domain.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> 
> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> > dangerous stuff.
> > It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> > I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> > I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented. If
> >> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> >> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> >> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> >> personal information to everywhere...
> >> 
> >> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> >>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> >>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> > 
> > wrote:
> >>>> Hello David,
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID
> >>>> or creditcard to google?
> >>> 
> >>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> >>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> >>> 
> >>> l.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Thu Jan 20 19:10:13 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 19:10:13 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
 <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com> <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
Message-ID: <07dec2dc-2f32-680f-3b5d-e342a5d1a43d@gmail.com>

Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if 
I see anything.

On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my logo.
> My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my channel,
> and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree around, so I
> blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
>
> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
>> domain.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ferenc
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
>>
>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
>>> dangerous stuff.
>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> -lev
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented. If
>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
>>>> personal information to everywhere...
>>>>
>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello David,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show ID
>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
>>>>>
>>>>> l.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Thu Jan 20 19:52:40 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 18:52:40 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <07dec2dc-2f32-680f-3b5d-e342a5d1a43d@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
 <07dec2dc-2f32-680f-3b5d-e342a5d1a43d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>

OK!

On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if
> I see anything.
> 
> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > Hi
> > I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my
> > logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
> > channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree around,
> > so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> > On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
> > 
> > This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> > https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Hello Everyone,
> >> 
> >> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
> >> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> >> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
> >> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> >> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
> >> domain.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >> Ferenc
> >> 
> >> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> >> 
> >> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>> dangerous stuff.
> >>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> >>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> >>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers
> >>> -lev
> >>> 
> >>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented.
> >>>> If
> >>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> >>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> >>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> >>>> personal information to everywhere...
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> >>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> >>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hello David,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show
> >>>>>> ID
> >>>>>> or creditcard to google?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> >>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> l.
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
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(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 02:41:45 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 02:41:45 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
 <07dec2dc-2f32-680f-3b5d-e342a5d1a43d@gmail.com> <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>
Message-ID: <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>

Hello David,

I reviewed the talk. It is mostly OK. However, as usual, I have some 
recommendations (if it fits into the deadline):

At 03:04, it is stated that would-be small startups are the intended 
users of the process (and also implied as the means of "small players" 
to access the technology). This is a good approach at first, as this 
puts a real-life check on the economic feasibility of providing a 
small-scale manufacturing service. But it raises the following question: 
entrepreneurs will try this if it seems to be economically viable, if 
demand is already there, but the demand will remain latent as long as 
no-one tries to provide it (since low-volume custom manufacturing is now 
considered to be infeasible, which is a cardinal blocking point in 
itself). How to resolve this chicken-and-egg? Maybe we will use our 
would-be lab to become a pilot provider? Whether yes or no, this 
contradiction and the way to resolve it should be mentioned here 
(referred as with the buzzword "driving the paradigm shift"/"Drive the 
adoption of these nodes"/"Elaborate novel business models" on the website).

As for the website: our roadmap (with the demos) didn't show up. Is it 
intentional?

At 03:42, I think, the part beginning with the taxpayer money up to the 
sticks in Italian is too political, falling in the same category of why 
the logo is blurred in the release version.

At 05:42, the book invokes for me the proverb "Who knows and 
understands, does it, who knows but doesn't understand, teaches it, who 
neither knows nor understands, writes a book of it". I would advertise 
it only if it is on the print...

At 26:18, I would also mention vacuum evaporation. Not as simple in 
construction as sputtering, but it's a much older technology (so easier 
to find second-hand equipment) and also simpler to design I suppose.

Regards,

Ferenc

On 1/20/22 19:52, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> OK!
>
> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if
>> I see anything.
>>
>> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my
>>> logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
>>> channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree around,
>>> so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
>>> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
>>>
>>> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
>>> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> -lev
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
>>>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
>>>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
>>>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
>>>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
>>>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
>>>> domain.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Ferenc
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
>>>>
>>>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
>>>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
>>>>> dangerous stuff.
>>>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
>>>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
>>>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> -lev
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>>>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented.
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
>>>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
>>>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
>>>>>> personal information to everywhere...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
>>>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
>>>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello David,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show
>>>>>>>> ID
>>>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
>>>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
>>>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> l.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 04:55:20 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 03:55:20 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>
 <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1984159.PZnrDSTGCM@harvey>

Hi
Thanks for the feedback, however, the 21st (so today) is the deadline.
As far as I understood, all the videos are now set and in the review
phase...
When it comes to the point I make, that it's essentially fascist, that
governments are paying large semiconductor manufacturers, I stand
by that statement and will keep it in there :-)
I only covered the most common deposition machines, in order
to provide a basic overview, because my talk was limited to an hour.
When it comes to the feasibility to start your own startup small
volume foundry, this is for any startup to decide on their own.

Cheers
-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:45 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello David,
> 
> I reviewed the talk. It is mostly OK. However, as usual, I have some
> recommendations (if it fits into the deadline):
> 
> At 03:04, it is stated that would-be small startups are the intended
> users of the process (and also implied as the means of "small players"
> to access the technology). This is a good approach at first, as this
> puts a real-life check on the economic feasibility of providing a
> small-scale manufacturing service. But it raises the following question:
> entrepreneurs will try this if it seems to be economically viable, if
> demand is already there, but the demand will remain latent as long as
> no-one tries to provide it (since low-volume custom manufacturing is now
> considered to be infeasible, which is a cardinal blocking point in
> itself). How to resolve this chicken-and-egg? Maybe we will use our
> would-be lab to become a pilot provider? Whether yes or no, this
> contradiction and the way to resolve it should be mentioned here
> (referred as with the buzzword "driving the paradigm shift"/"Drive the
> adoption of these nodes"/"Elaborate novel business models" on the website).
> 
> As for the website: our roadmap (with the demos) didn't show up. Is it
> intentional?
> 
> At 03:42, I think, the part beginning with the taxpayer money up to the
> sticks in Italian is too political, falling in the same category of why
> the logo is blurred in the release version.
> 
> At 05:42, the book invokes for me the proverb "Who knows and
> understands, does it, who knows but doesn't understand, teaches it, who
> neither knows nor understands, writes a book of it". I would advertise
> it only if it is on the print...
> 
> At 26:18, I would also mention vacuum evaporation. Not as simple in
> construction as sputtering, but it's a much older technology (so easier
> to find second-hand equipment) and also simpler to design I suppose.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/20/22 19:52, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > OK!
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if
> >> I see anything.
> >> 
> >> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my
> >>> logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
> >>> channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree
> >>> around,
> >>> so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> >>> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
> >>> 
> >>> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> >>> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers
> >>> -lev
> >>> 
> >>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>> Hello Everyone,
> >>>> 
> >>>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
> >>>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> >>>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
> >>>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> >>>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
> >>>> domain.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Ferenc
> >>>> 
> >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>>> dangerous stuff.
> >>>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> >>>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> >>>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> -lev
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented.
> >>>>>> If
> >>>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> >>>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> >>>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> >>>>>> personal information to everywhere...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> >>>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> >>>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hello David,
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show
> >>>>>>>> ID
> >>>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> >>>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> l.
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From programmerjake at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 05:00:29 2022
From: programmerjake at gmail.com (Jacob Lifshay)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:00:29 -0800
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
 <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com> <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
Message-ID: <CAC2bXD4MGrfNX4TVissZgREL8=VfGKejD=vxxkvomedOpY-sDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nice!

the video clip showing how a spin coater works faded to black too early,
leaving the part where it's actually running only partially visible. also
there are several seconds where it's just sitting there doing nothing, so
maybe you started and stopped too early in the video you extracted the clip
from?

iirc Applied Science on youtube has some nice spin coater clips if you need
them: https://youtu.be/321tptQ8PrU

Jacob
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://list.libresilicon.com/pipermail/libresilicon-developers/attachments/20220120/6a06a53c/attachment.html>

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 05:06:59 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 04:06:59 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <CAC2bXD4MGrfNX4TVissZgREL8=VfGKejD=vxxkvomedOpY-sDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <2235213.oQzlgfQKta@harvey>
 <CAC2bXD4MGrfNX4TVissZgREL8=VfGKejD=vxxkvomedOpY-sDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18255214.sFdYXE2FtS@harvey>

Thanks for the tip!
I'll make some additional videos going into detail on the different points,
in the future. I'll keep that in mind.

Cheers-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 4:00:29 AM WET Jacob Lifshay wrote:
> Nice!
> 
> the video clip showing how a spin coater works faded to black too early,
> leaving the part where it's actually running only partially visible. also
> there are several seconds where it's just sitting there doing nothing, so
> maybe you started and stopped too early in the video you extracted the clip
> from?
> 
> iirc Applied Science on youtube has some nice spin coater clips if you need
> them: https://youtu.be/321tptQ8PrU
> 
> Jacob


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 05:28:33 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 04:28:33 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>
 <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9722920.HpUi9dzoj2@harvey>

Also, it's about how to use the process and scale it,
it's not supposed to be a business pitch.
We've got the roadmap on the webiste :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:45 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello David,
> 
> I reviewed the talk. It is mostly OK. However, as usual, I have some
> recommendations (if it fits into the deadline):
> 
> At 03:04, it is stated that would-be small startups are the intended
> users of the process (and also implied as the means of "small players"
> to access the technology). This is a good approach at first, as this
> puts a real-life check on the economic feasibility of providing a
> small-scale manufacturing service. But it raises the following question:
> entrepreneurs will try this if it seems to be economically viable, if
> demand is already there, but the demand will remain latent as long as
> no-one tries to provide it (since low-volume custom manufacturing is now
> considered to be infeasible, which is a cardinal blocking point in
> itself). How to resolve this chicken-and-egg? Maybe we will use our
> would-be lab to become a pilot provider? Whether yes or no, this
> contradiction and the way to resolve it should be mentioned here
> (referred as with the buzzword "driving the paradigm shift"/"Drive the
> adoption of these nodes"/"Elaborate novel business models" on the website).
> 
> As for the website: our roadmap (with the demos) didn't show up. Is it
> intentional?
> 
> At 03:42, I think, the part beginning with the taxpayer money up to the
> sticks in Italian is too political, falling in the same category of why
> the logo is blurred in the release version.
> 
> At 05:42, the book invokes for me the proverb "Who knows and
> understands, does it, who knows but doesn't understand, teaches it, who
> neither knows nor understands, writes a book of it". I would advertise
> it only if it is on the print...
> 
> At 26:18, I would also mention vacuum evaporation. Not as simple in
> construction as sputtering, but it's a much older technology (so easier
> to find second-hand equipment) and also simpler to design I suppose.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/20/22 19:52, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > OK!
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if
> >> I see anything.
> >> 
> >> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my
> >>> logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
> >>> channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree
> >>> around,
> >>> so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> >>> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
> >>> 
> >>> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> >>> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers
> >>> -lev
> >>> 
> >>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>> Hello Everyone,
> >>>> 
> >>>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
> >>>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> >>>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
> >>>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> >>>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
> >>>> domain.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Ferenc
> >>>> 
> >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>>> dangerous stuff.
> >>>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> >>>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> >>>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> -lev
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented.
> >>>>>> If
> >>>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> >>>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> >>>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> >>>>>> personal information to everywhere...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> >>>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> >>>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hello David,
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show
> >>>>>>>> ID
> >>>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> >>>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> l.
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 19:05:46 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:05:46 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <9722920.HpUi9dzoj2@harvey>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com> <9722920.HpUi9dzoj2@harvey>
Message-ID: <5514895.D7FNsWlX05@harvey>

So I've checked and the video has already been reviewed and accepted.
I'd have to sit down and record additional parts of the video, cut, rerender
and re-submit it.
I'll add a better demo video for the spin coater, will record some short
examples on how to use QFlow and OpenLANE and then try to re-upload,
but no promises.

Cheers
-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 4:28:33 AM WET David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Also, it's about how to use the process and scale it,
> it's not supposed to be a business pitch.
> We've got the roadmap on the webiste :-)
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> 
> On Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:45 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> > Hello David,
> > 
> > I reviewed the talk. It is mostly OK. However, as usual, I have some
> > recommendations (if it fits into the deadline):
> > 
> > At 03:04, it is stated that would-be small startups are the intended
> > users of the process (and also implied as the means of "small players"
> > to access the technology). This is a good approach at first, as this
> > puts a real-life check on the economic feasibility of providing a
> > small-scale manufacturing service. But it raises the following question:
> > entrepreneurs will try this if it seems to be economically viable, if
> > demand is already there, but the demand will remain latent as long as
> > no-one tries to provide it (since low-volume custom manufacturing is now
> > considered to be infeasible, which is a cardinal blocking point in
> > itself). How to resolve this chicken-and-egg? Maybe we will use our
> > would-be lab to become a pilot provider? Whether yes or no, this
> > contradiction and the way to resolve it should be mentioned here
> > (referred as with the buzzword "driving the paradigm shift"/"Drive the
> > adoption of these nodes"/"Elaborate novel business models" on the
> > website).
> > 
> > As for the website: our roadmap (with the demos) didn't show up. Is it
> > intentional?
> > 
> > At 03:42, I think, the part beginning with the taxpayer money up to the
> > sticks in Italian is too political, falling in the same category of why
> > the logo is blurred in the release version.
> > 
> > At 05:42, the book invokes for me the proverb "Who knows and
> > understands, does it, who knows but doesn't understand, teaches it, who
> > neither knows nor understands, writes a book of it". I would advertise
> > it only if it is on the print...
> > 
> > At 26:18, I would also mention vacuum evaporation. Not as simple in
> > construction as sputtering, but it's a much older technology (so easier
> > to find second-hand equipment) and also simpler to design I suppose.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Ferenc
> > 
> > On 1/20/22 19:52, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > > OK!
> > > 
> > > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> > >> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today
> > >> if
> > >> I see anything.
> > >> 
> > >> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > >>> Hi
> > >>> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of
> > >>> my
> > >>> logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
> > >>> channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree
> > >>> around,
> > >>> so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> > >>> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
> > >>> 
> > >>> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> > >>> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
> > >>> 
> > >>> Cheers
> > >>> -lev
> > >>> 
> > >>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> > >>>> Hello Everyone,
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..."
> > >>>> Physical
> > >>>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> > >>>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals.
> > >>>> I
> > >>>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> > >>>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the
> > >>>> libresilicon.com
> > >>>> domain.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Regards,
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Ferenc
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > >>>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> dangerous stuff.
> > >>>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> > >>>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> > >>>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> Cheers
> > >>>>> -lev
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> > >>>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's
> > >>>>>> implemented.
> > >>>>>> If
> > >>>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> > >>>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with
> > >>>>>> age
> > >>>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother
> > >>>>>> spraying
> > >>>>>> personal information to everywhere...
> > >>>>>> 
> > >>>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> > >>>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> > >>>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Hello David,
> > >>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to
> > >>>>>>>> show
> > >>>>>>>> ID
> > >>>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the
> > >>>>>>> schedule:
> > >>>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> > >>>>>>> 
> > >>>>>>> l.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > >>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > >>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developer
> > >>>> s
> > >> 
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 19:32:30 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:32:30 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] pdk.libresilicon.com is down
Message-ID: <2749323.tKZL1YV7UT@harvey>

Hi
I just wanted to shoot the demo video on how to use OpenLANE and QFlow,
when I noticed that pdk.libresilicon.com is down.
It's not hosted on my server, I just made the DNS entry, as far as I know, 
it's Philipp's server.
It's dumb trying to record something and finding out it's broken Haha

Cheers
-lev
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(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From pg at futureware.at  Fri Jan 21 20:36:08 2022
From: pg at futureware.at (Philipp =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FChring?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 20:36:08 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] pdk.libresilicon.com is down
In-Reply-To: <2749323.tKZL1YV7UT@harvey>
References: <2749323.tKZL1YV7UT@harvey>
Message-ID: <WorldClient-F202201212036.AA36080254@futureware.at>

Hi,

Sorry, for the unplanned outage, I had to repair and exchange another server in the datacenter and wanted to use the opportunity to exchange the HDD on pdk.libresilicon.com which was running full lately, but it didn't boot up properly anymore, so I took it home and it should be running again tomorrow 10:00 AM, GMT+1.

Best regards,
Philipp

-----Original Message-----
From: David Lanzend?rfer <leviathan at libresilicon.com>
To: libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com, Philipp G?hring <pg at futureware.at>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:32:30 +0000
Subject: pdk.libresilicon.com is down

> Hi
> I just wanted to shoot the demo video on how to use OpenLANE and QFlow,
> when I noticed that pdk.libresilicon.com is down.
> It's not hosted on my server, I just made the DNS entry, as far as I
> know, 
> it's Philipp's server.
> It's dumb trying to record something and finding out it's broken Haha
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> -- 
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
> (")_(")
> Copy and paste Bunny into your
> signature to help him gain world domination

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 21:10:53 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 20:10:53 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] pdk.libresilicon.com is down
In-Reply-To: <WorldClient-F202201212036.AA36080254@futureware.at>
References: <2749323.tKZL1YV7UT@harvey>
 <WorldClient-F202201212036.AA36080254@futureware.at>
Message-ID: <2839481.BVBARIuLi8@harvey>

Hi
Thanks for the explanation!
I'm trying to get OpenLANE running here in the meanwhile and record some other
parts of the video.
However, it looks as if the whole thing will be too long to be shoved into the 
talk about the process, so the whole thing will be a video on its own.
I'll only show parts of it in the video about the process, which is fine, 
because the talk is supposed to be about the process flow and not about the 
design tools...
it's not my fault, that I'm the only one in our team giving a talk there :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 7:36:08 PM WET Philipp G?hring wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry, for the unplanned outage, I had to repair and exchange another server
> in the datacenter and wanted to use the opportunity to exchange the HDD on
> pdk.libresilicon.com which was running full lately, but it didn't boot up
> properly anymore, so I took it home and it should be running again tomorrow
> 10:00 AM, GMT+1.
> 
> Best regards,
> Philipp
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lanzend?rfer <leviathan at libresilicon.com>
> To: libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com, Philipp G?hring
> <pg at futureware.at> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 18:32:30 +0000
> Subject: pdk.libresilicon.com is down
> 
> > Hi
> > I just wanted to shoot the demo video on how to use OpenLANE and QFlow,
> > when I noticed that pdk.libresilicon.com is down.
> > It's not hosted on my server, I just made the DNS entry, as far as I
> > know,
> > it's Philipp's server.
> > It's dumb trying to record something and finding out it's broken Haha
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Fri Jan 21 23:57:08 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 22:57:08 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey> <1731732.Vfx7cS9RkV@harvey>
 <8d5f41c4-1794-b373-2c92-29322d00c1b0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4805708.5Qk4Tt5ZQo@harvey>

Hi
I just noticed that before my talk on how to actually run the process
flow, there are already two videos planned here, on Coriolis and eFabless,
which means, all the tools I've mentioned would be also provided in our
toolchain will already be introduced, so there's really no need for me
to repeat stuff from the other two videos, Ferenc:
https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/room/dopen_hardware

I will keep making videos however and will upload them to this
dedicated channel, and then embed them on the website:
https://odysee.com/@LibreSilicon:8

BTW: Would be cool, if you'd be looking into Kdenlive as well
and would as well get a hang on video editing, so that I'm not
the only one producing content :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:45 AM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello David,
> 
> I reviewed the talk. It is mostly OK. However, as usual, I have some
> recommendations (if it fits into the deadline):
> 
> At 03:04, it is stated that would-be small startups are the intended
> users of the process (and also implied as the means of "small players"
> to access the technology). This is a good approach at first, as this
> puts a real-life check on the economic feasibility of providing a
> small-scale manufacturing service. But it raises the following question:
> entrepreneurs will try this if it seems to be economically viable, if
> demand is already there, but the demand will remain latent as long as
> no-one tries to provide it (since low-volume custom manufacturing is now
> considered to be infeasible, which is a cardinal blocking point in
> itself). How to resolve this chicken-and-egg? Maybe we will use our
> would-be lab to become a pilot provider? Whether yes or no, this
> contradiction and the way to resolve it should be mentioned here
> (referred as with the buzzword "driving the paradigm shift"/"Drive the
> adoption of these nodes"/"Elaborate novel business models" on the website).
> 
> As for the website: our roadmap (with the demos) didn't show up. Is it
> intentional?
> 
> At 03:42, I think, the part beginning with the taxpayer money up to the
> sticks in Italian is too political, falling in the same category of why
> the logo is blurred in the release version.
> 
> At 05:42, the book invokes for me the proverb "Who knows and
> understands, does it, who knows but doesn't understand, teaches it, who
> neither knows nor understands, writes a book of it". I would advertise
> it only if it is on the print...
> 
> At 26:18, I would also mention vacuum evaporation. Not as simple in
> construction as sputtering, but it's a much older technology (so easier
> to find second-hand equipment) and also simpler to design I suppose.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/20/22 19:52, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > OK!
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 6:10:13 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Thanks. It works now. I will check it out now and give feedback today if
> >> I see anything.
> >> 
> >> On 1/20/22 18:37, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>> I've uploaded it to Odysee after rerending with a sharper version of my
> >>> logo. My logo contains some examples of topics I'm talking about on my
> >>> channel, and some people at FOSDEM might become triggered and ree
> >>> around,
> >>> so I blurred it out for the FOSDEM talk.
> >>> On Odysee is the version with the proper logo :-)
> >>> 
> >>> This will be the link, as soon as Odysee is done processing it:
> >>> https://odysee.com/talk:e74c460befe30336690a7f3fc4316bd82bda4250
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers
> >>> -lev
> >>> 
> >>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 4:05:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>> Hello Everyone,
> >>>> 
> >>>> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..." Physical
> >>>> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be
> >>>> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals. I
> >>>> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository
> >>>> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the libresilicon.com
> >>>> domain.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Ferenc
> >>>> 
> >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> >>>> 
> >>>> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>>>> I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals and
> >>>>> dangerous stuff.
> >>>>> It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> >>>>> I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> >>>>> I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> -lev
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >>>>>> The problem is not with access control, but the way it's implemented.
> >>>>>> If
> >>>>>> we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> >>>>>> distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with age
> >>>>>> restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother spraying
> >>>>>> personal information to everywhere...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> >>>>>>> On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger"
> >>>>>>> <eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hello David,
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have to show
> >>>>>>>> ID
> >>>>>>>> or creditcard to google?
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the schedule:
> >>>>>>> https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> l.
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From hsank at posteo.de  Sat Jan 22 15:29:35 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 14:29:35 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Announcement - Mumble session on Sunday
	2022-01-23 @ 18:00 UTC
Message-ID: <fbbb0316-035f-f281-9cc9-1e78420dad0b@posteo.de>

Hello List!

This is our weekly announcement for our next Mumble Sessions on Sunday

	2022-01-23 @ 18:00 UTC.

Please join us as usual at our Mumble Server murmur.libresilicon.com at
Port 64738, the Channel is IC.

We like to follow-up our topics from mumble sessions before.

Regards,
Hagen.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Mon Jan 24 21:05:03 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 20:05:03 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
Message-ID: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>

Hi
Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was asleep,
due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've put off recording
my batch load video and went deeper into the research for example clips
instead.
During that research I realized, that the most common method for loading
and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an Arduino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatronics

Opinions?

-lev


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 02:39:56 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 01:39:56 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Update: Stepper
Message-ID: <34257944.6Ms50QVJzZ@harvey>

Hi
I've just ordered 3 pieces of those dev boards here, they're dirt cheap:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003386129982.html
I'll tell you whether they're legit or not, when they arrive :D

Cheers
-lev


From hsank at posteo.de  Tue Jan 25 07:14:29 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:14:29 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
Message-ID: <06721f82-f81a-e218-bfc1-39e1a4d6fc41@posteo.de>

Hello David.

The best wafer handling systems I know using the Bernoulli's principle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
and the manipulator arm has similarities to a forklift.

So I looked at youtube and found this clip :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkEfLpB3RU

Well, being cost-effective and reliable I'd suggest to use components
similar to CD or DVD players. Their drawers mechanic is in principle all
we need when the cassette always could stand vertically. Open up the
drawer and slide into the cassette, grep the wafer onto drawer, slide
out of the cassette while closing the drawer back into our instrument..

BTW, I would transport the wafer batches as seen many times with
rail-mounted cages on ceiling.

Regards,
Hagen.

On 1/24/22 9:05 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was asleep,
> due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've put off recording
> my batch load video and went deeper into the research for example clips
> instead.
> During that research I realized, that the most common method for loading
> and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
> and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
> I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an Arduino:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatronics
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> -lev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 12:55:13 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:55:13 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <06721f82-f81a-e218-bfc1-39e1a4d6fc41@posteo.de>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <06721f82-f81a-e218-bfc1-39e1a4d6fc41@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>

Hi
I was thinking more along the lines of just having one robot arm, with a 
simplified low cost version of the wafer transport grab shown in the video
you've linked.
We could mount a small low cost CMOS sensor at the endpoint as well,
and then use OpenCV to detect the presense or absense of wafers and making 
sure, the graber doesn't damage any of the wafers.

I'm going to buy a 3D printer soon (gotta hack some code for my day job first,
in order to buy a proper one), and there's already simple robot arm examples
on the web which I could simply print out and then modify them as needed.
The grabbing part might however require being made from metal, which will
require me to use one of those metal part prototyping services here in 
Portugal, which will probably increase the cost, so I'll try a 3D printed 
plastic variant first.

The advantage of a robo arm with a fork lift system is, that I only need one 
cassette, because the robot can just work slot by slot and put the wafer back
after processing.

I could put another inexpensive CMOS sensor directly over the loading stage
and use OpenCV to make sure that the wafer is properly placed on the stage.
In general, I think OpenCV and cameras is a fantastic way to drastically
reduce the amount of sensors required in the system, so we should make
as much use of it as possible. 

I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the "webcams"
(CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as well
as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html

Opinion?

Cheers
-lev

PS: Today I got my Liberland passport. The greenscreen/chromakey background
and the LCOS projector modules are still on their way.

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 6:14:29 AM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> Hello David.
> 
> The best wafer handling systems I know using the Bernoulli's principle
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
> and the manipulator arm has similarities to a forklift.
> 
> So I looked at youtube and found this clip :-)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkEfLpB3RU
> 
> Well, being cost-effective and reliable I'd suggest to use components
> similar to CD or DVD players. Their drawers mechanic is in principle all
> we need when the cassette always could stand vertically. Open up the
> drawer and slide into the cassette, grep the wafer onto drawer, slide
> out of the cassette while closing the drawer back into our instrument..
> 
> BTW, I would transport the wafer batches as seen many times with
> rail-mounted cages on ceiling.
> 
> Regards,
> Hagen.
> 
> On 1/24/22 9:05 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > Hi
> > Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was
> > asleep, due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've put
> > off recording my batch load video and went deeper into the research for
> > example clips instead.
> > During that research I realized, that the most common method for loading
> > and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
> > and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
> > I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an Arduino:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatronics
> > 
> > Opinions?
> > 
> > -lev
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From hsank at posteo.de  Tue Jan 25 14:28:43 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:28:43 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <06721f82-f81a-e218-bfc1-39e1a4d6fc41@posteo.de> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
Message-ID: <638ba762-8150-104f-ea09-11e68da0b5f0@posteo.de>

Hello David.

Regarding the Mini-Computer, please look for flex-flat-cable MIPI CSI-2
connectors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_Serial_Interface
makes it incredible easy to connect cheap cameras to them.

Nowadays always all small smartphone cameras using this (proprietary)
Low-Voltage Differential Signaling (LVDS).

The Rasperry Pi was the first palm-size computer which got a MIPI CSI-2.
I am sure, a couple of China Clones has this interface too.

Regards,
Hagen.


On 1/25/22 12:55 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> I was thinking more along the lines of just having one robot arm, with a 
> simplified low cost version of the wafer transport grab shown in the video
> you've linked.
> We could mount a small low cost CMOS sensor at the endpoint as well,
> and then use OpenCV to detect the presense or absense of wafers and making 
> sure, the graber doesn't damage any of the wafers.
> 
> I'm going to buy a 3D printer soon (gotta hack some code for my day job first,
> in order to buy a proper one), and there's already simple robot arm examples
> on the web which I could simply print out and then modify them as needed.
> The grabbing part might however require being made from metal, which will
> require me to use one of those metal part prototyping services here in 
> Portugal, which will probably increase the cost, so I'll try a 3D printed 
> plastic variant first.
> 
> The advantage of a robo arm with a fork lift system is, that I only need one 
> cassette, because the robot can just work slot by slot and put the wafer back
> after processing.
> 
> I could put another inexpensive CMOS sensor directly over the loading stage
> and use OpenCV to make sure that the wafer is properly placed on the stage.
> In general, I think OpenCV and cameras is a fantastic way to drastically
> reduce the amount of sensors required in the system, so we should make
> as much use of it as possible. 
> 
> I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the "webcams"
> (CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as well
> as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
> 
> Opinion?
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> 
> PS: Today I got my Liberland passport. The greenscreen/chromakey background
> and the LCOS projector modules are still on their way.
> 
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 6:14:29 AM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
>> Hello David.
>>
>> The best wafer handling systems I know using the Bernoulli's principle
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
>> and the manipulator arm has similarities to a forklift.
>>
>> So I looked at youtube and found this clip :-)
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkEfLpB3RU
>>
>> Well, being cost-effective and reliable I'd suggest to use components
>> similar to CD or DVD players. Their drawers mechanic is in principle all
>> we need when the cassette always could stand vertically. Open up the
>> drawer and slide into the cassette, grep the wafer onto drawer, slide
>> out of the cassette while closing the drawer back into our instrument..
>>
>> BTW, I would transport the wafer batches as seen many times with
>> rail-mounted cages on ceiling.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hagen.
>>
>> On 1/24/22 9:05 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was
>>> asleep, due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've put
>>> off recording my batch load video and went deeper into the research for
>>> example clips instead.
>>> During that research I realized, that the most common method for loading
>>> and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
>>> and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
>>> I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an Arduino:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatronics
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> -lev
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> 

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 15:20:27 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:20:27 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <638ba762-8150-104f-ea09-11e68da0b5f0@posteo.de>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <638ba762-8150-104f-ea09-11e68da0b5f0@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <8268841.TFPqrZJorb@harvey>

Hi Hagen

I'll need to design an adapter with multiple such connectors on it anyway,
considering, that there will be multiple cams, so I won't need a computer,
which actually has those on board, because I can wire it over USB, to the
machine running the software.
I'll also have to add the controller for the LCOS chip on there as well, so it
will be just one or two USB plugs, and then probably a CentOS with the 
software.
RedHat/CentOS is used in the industry, whenever Linux is required, because
of the support contracts which are possible, so it will be easier to do 
marketing, when providing CentOS/RedHat images ready to be installed
on any desktop machine you want.

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:28:43 PM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> Hello David.
> 
> Regarding the Mini-Computer, please look for flex-flat-cable MIPI CSI-2
> connectors.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_Serial_Interface
> makes it incredible easy to connect cheap cameras to them.
> 
> Nowadays always all small smartphone cameras using this (proprietary)
> Low-Voltage Differential Signaling (LVDS).
> 
> The Rasperry Pi was the first palm-size computer which got a MIPI CSI-2.
> I am sure, a couple of China Clones has this interface too.
> 
> Regards,
> Hagen.
> 
> On 1/25/22 12:55 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > Hi
> > I was thinking more along the lines of just having one robot arm, with a
> > simplified low cost version of the wafer transport grab shown in the video
> > you've linked.
> > We could mount a small low cost CMOS sensor at the endpoint as well,
> > and then use OpenCV to detect the presense or absense of wafers and making
> > sure, the graber doesn't damage any of the wafers.
> > 
> > I'm going to buy a 3D printer soon (gotta hack some code for my day job
> > first, in order to buy a proper one), and there's already simple robot
> > arm examples on the web which I could simply print out and then modify
> > them as needed. The grabbing part might however require being made from
> > metal, which will require me to use one of those metal part prototyping
> > services here in Portugal, which will probably increase the cost, so I'll
> > try a 3D printed plastic variant first.
> > 
> > The advantage of a robo arm with a fork lift system is, that I only need
> > one cassette, because the robot can just work slot by slot and put the
> > wafer back after processing.
> > 
> > I could put another inexpensive CMOS sensor directly over the loading
> > stage
> > and use OpenCV to make sure that the wafer is properly placed on the
> > stage.
> > In general, I think OpenCV and cameras is a fantastic way to drastically
> > reduce the amount of sensors required in the system, so we should make
> > as much use of it as possible.
> > 
> > I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the "webcams"
> > (CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
> > well
> > as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
> > 
> > Opinion?
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > PS: Today I got my Liberland passport. The greenscreen/chromakey
> > background
> > and the LCOS projector modules are still on their way.
> > 
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 6:14:29 AM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> >> Hello David.
> >> 
> >> The best wafer handling systems I know using the Bernoulli's principle
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
> >> and the manipulator arm has similarities to a forklift.
> >> 
> >> So I looked at youtube and found this clip :-)
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkEfLpB3RU
> >> 
> >> Well, being cost-effective and reliable I'd suggest to use components
> >> similar to CD or DVD players. Their drawers mechanic is in principle all
> >> we need when the cassette always could stand vertically. Open up the
> >> drawer and slide into the cassette, grep the wafer onto drawer, slide
> >> out of the cassette while closing the drawer back into our instrument..
> >> 
> >> BTW, I would transport the wafer batches as seen many times with
> >> rail-mounted cages on ceiling.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Hagen.
> >> 
> >> On 1/24/22 9:05 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> >>> Hi
> >>> Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was
> >>> asleep, due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've put
> >>> off recording my batch load video and went deeper into the research for
> >>> example clips instead.
> >>> During that research I realized, that the most common method for loading
> >>> and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
> >>> and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
> >>> I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an Arduino:
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatronics
> >>> 
> >>> Opinions?
> >>> 
> >>> -lev
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 15:27:00 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:27:00 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <8268841.TFPqrZJorb@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <638ba762-8150-104f-ea09-11e68da0b5f0@posteo.de> <8268841.TFPqrZJorb@harvey>
Message-ID: <6829883.b446a7F1jz@harvey>

Hi
I guess those plus a USB hub should do :-)
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1005001499097554.html

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 2:20:27 PM WET David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi Hagen
> 
> I'll need to design an adapter with multiple such connectors on it anyway,
> considering, that there will be multiple cams, so I won't need a computer,
> which actually has those on board, because I can wire it over USB, to the
> machine running the software.
> I'll also have to add the controller for the LCOS chip on there as well, so
> it will be just one or two USB plugs, and then probably a CentOS with the
> software.
> RedHat/CentOS is used in the industry, whenever Linux is required, because
> of the support contracts which are possible, so it will be easier to do
> marketing, when providing CentOS/RedHat images ready to be installed
> on any desktop machine you want.
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> 
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:28:43 PM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> > Hello David.
> > 
> > Regarding the Mini-Computer, please look for flex-flat-cable MIPI CSI-2
> > connectors.
> > 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_Serial_Interface
> > makes it incredible easy to connect cheap cameras to them.
> > 
> > Nowadays always all small smartphone cameras using this (proprietary)
> > Low-Voltage Differential Signaling (LVDS).
> > 
> > The Rasperry Pi was the first palm-size computer which got a MIPI CSI-2.
> > I am sure, a couple of China Clones has this interface too.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Hagen.
> > 
> > On 1/25/22 12:55 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > I was thinking more along the lines of just having one robot arm, with a
> > > simplified low cost version of the wafer transport grab shown in the
> > > video
> > > you've linked.
> > > We could mount a small low cost CMOS sensor at the endpoint as well,
> > > and then use OpenCV to detect the presense or absense of wafers and
> > > making
> > > sure, the graber doesn't damage any of the wafers.
> > > 
> > > I'm going to buy a 3D printer soon (gotta hack some code for my day job
> > > first, in order to buy a proper one), and there's already simple robot
> > > arm examples on the web which I could simply print out and then modify
> > > them as needed. The grabbing part might however require being made from
> > > metal, which will require me to use one of those metal part prototyping
> > > services here in Portugal, which will probably increase the cost, so
> > > I'll
> > > try a 3D printed plastic variant first.
> > > 
> > > The advantage of a robo arm with a fork lift system is, that I only need
> > > one cassette, because the robot can just work slot by slot and put the
> > > wafer back after processing.
> > > 
> > > I could put another inexpensive CMOS sensor directly over the loading
> > > stage
> > > and use OpenCV to make sure that the wafer is properly placed on the
> > > stage.
> > > In general, I think OpenCV and cameras is a fantastic way to drastically
> > > reduce the amount of sensors required in the system, so we should make
> > > as much use of it as possible.
> > > 
> > > I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the
> > > "webcams"
> > > (CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
> > > well
> > > as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
> > > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
> > > 
> > > Opinion?
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > -lev
> > > 
> > > PS: Today I got my Liberland passport. The greenscreen/chromakey
> > > background
> > > and the LCOS projector modules are still on their way.
> > > 
> > > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 6:14:29 AM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> > >> Hello David.
> > >> 
> > >> The best wafer handling systems I know using the Bernoulli's principle
> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle
> > >> and the manipulator arm has similarities to a forklift.
> > >> 
> > >> So I looked at youtube and found this clip :-)
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkEfLpB3RU
> > >> 
> > >> Well, being cost-effective and reliable I'd suggest to use components
> > >> similar to CD or DVD players. Their drawers mechanic is in principle
> > >> all
> > >> we need when the cassette always could stand vertically. Open up the
> > >> drawer and slide into the cassette, grep the wafer onto drawer, slide
> > >> out of the cassette while closing the drawer back into our instrument..
> > >> 
> > >> BTW, I would transport the wafer batches as seen many times with
> > >> rail-mounted cages on ceiling.
> > >> 
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Hagen.
> > >> 
> > >> On 1/24/22 9:05 PM, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > >>> Hi
> > >>> Since I seem to have accidentally hit myself into the face while I was
> > >>> asleep, due to a nightmare, and now have a kind of swollen eye, I've
> > >>> put
> > >>> off recording my batch load video and went deeper into the research
> > >>> for
> > >>> example clips instead.
> > >>> During that research I realized, that the most common method for
> > >>> loading
> > >>> and unloading has shifted from rubber bands to full blown robot arms,
> > >>> and I was thinking, we could actually also use robot arms.
> > >>> I could actually 3D print that robot arm and control it with an
> > >>> Arduino:
> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3gWd3A_SI&ab_channel=HowToMechatroni
> > >>> cs
> > >>> 
> > >>> Opinions?
> > >>> 
> > >>> -lev
> > >>> 
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > >>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > >>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> > >> 
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
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(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From luke.leighton at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 15:49:45 2022
From: luke.leighton at gmail.com (lkcl)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 14:49:45 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <06721f82-f81a-e218-bfc1-39e1a4d6fc41@posteo.de> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
Message-ID: <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com>



On January 25, 2022 11:55:13 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:

>I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the
>"webcams"
>(CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
>well
>as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
>https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html

do not for god's sake use RAMPS for a 3D printer controller. 

consider getting a board designed by think3dprint3d adrian bowyer

https://reprap.org/wiki/Duet

https://www.duet3d.com/

they use the superb Trinamic 2.8A stepper drivers which have high accuracy and high frequency interpolation, and Adrian properly designed the PCB to actually take heat away.

you might think you are doing yourself a favour by getting a cheap china knockoff but it is a huge risk

l.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 16:47:39 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:47:39 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>

Hi
So I kindly asked in Chinese for the schematics of those LCOS PCBs I've 
ordered and they were very forthcoming. I now have the schematics.
When it comes to stepper electronics, I hadn't made up my mind yet,
but I was going to check for driver boards which exactly have high
accuracy, considering that I'm shooting for a lambda of 500nm, and
those stepper motors are supposed to... well step over the wafer without
too much offset...
I've decided to not move the wafer, but instead moving the optics on top
of the wafer, because the thing I've ordered will be so lightweight, that
there won't be any vibrations, especially, considering that I'm anyway
stepping VERY slow...
I'll cross the bridge of what drivers to use, as soon as I'm there :-)

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 2:49:45 PM WET lkcl wrote:
> On January 25, 2022 11:55:13 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer" 
<leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the
> >"webcams"
> >(CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
> >well
> >as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
> >https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
> 
> do not for god's sake use RAMPS for a 3D printer controller.
> 
> consider getting a board designed by think3dprint3d adrian bowyer
> 
> https://reprap.org/wiki/Duet
> 
> https://www.duet3d.com/
> 
> they use the superb Trinamic 2.8A stepper drivers which have high accuracy
> and high frequency interpolation, and Adrian properly designed the PCB to
> actually take heat away.
> 
> you might think you are doing yourself a favour by getting a cheap china
> knockoff but it is a huge risk
> 
> l.
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
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From luke.leighton at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 19:14:53 2022
From: luke.leighton at gmail.com (lkcl)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:14:53 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
Message-ID: <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>



On January 25, 2022 3:47:39 PM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:

>that
>there won't be any vibrations, especially, considering that I'm anyway
>stepping VERY slow...
>I'll cross the bridge of what drivers to use, as soon as I'm there :-)

Trinamic ICs have 1/256 phase interpolation and generate proper pure sine waves, where ordinary ones have 1/8 if you are lucky and shove out domething closer to a sawtooth than a sine wave.  the difference is that Trinamic use 32bit internal microcontrollers whereas your average driver is likely an 8051.

consequently the average drivers have some serious interpolation artefacts that you really do not want to have the hassle of finding out how bad they are *and how PCB designers failed to read the frickin datasheet*

l.

From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 19:22:25 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:22:25 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
Message-ID: <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

"I was going to check for driver boards which exactly have high
accuracy, considering that I'm shooting for a lambda of 500nm, and
those stepper motors are supposed to... well step over the wafer without
too much offset..."

I think it will be impossible to find or construct a stepper-driven 
screw with 500nm accuracy. This problem is usually solved in the way 
that is used in CD/DVD drives: a screw-shaft with a stepper motor 
provides wide-range but coarse and imprecise actuation over the entire 
range, while a short-range magnetic actuator (essentially a solenoid 
facing a permanent magnet suspended on springs) provides fine movement 
(resolution dependent only on the ADC, if any, driving the solenoid 
amplifier) over 2-3 steps distance.

In an optical drive, the analog tracking error signal is fed into the 
solenoid via an analog feedback loop, keeping the lens over the track. 
When the solenoid control signal approaches the end of its range in 
either direction, a comparator senses it and causes the stepper to step 
one forward or backward (while the movement of the lens caused by the 
stepping is canceled out by the feedback loop), bringing the solenoid 
back to the center of its range of movement.

Regards,

Ferenc

On 1/25/22 16:47, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> So I kindly asked in Chinese for the schematics of those LCOS PCBs I've
> ordered and they were very forthcoming. I now have the schematics.
> When it comes to stepper electronics, I hadn't made up my mind yet,
> but I was going to check for driver boards which exactly have high
> accuracy, considering that I'm shooting for a lambda of 500nm, and
> those stepper motors are supposed to... well step over the wafer without
> too much offset...
> I've decided to not move the wafer, but instead moving the optics on top
> of the wafer, because the thing I've ordered will be so lightweight, that
> there won't be any vibrations, especially, considering that I'm anyway
> stepping VERY slow...
> I'll cross the bridge of what drivers to use, as soon as I'm there :-)
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 2:49:45 PM WET lkcl wrote:
>> On January 25, 2022 11:55:13 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer"
> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>>> I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the
>>> "webcams"
>>> (CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
>>> well
>>> as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
>>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
>> do not for god's sake use RAMPS for a 3D printer controller.
>>
>> consider getting a board designed by think3dprint3d adrian bowyer
>>
>> https://reprap.org/wiki/Duet
>>
>> https://www.duet3d.com/
>>
>> they use the superb Trinamic 2.8A stepper drivers which have high accuracy
>> and high frequency interpolation, and Adrian properly designed the PCB to
>> actually take heat away.
>>
>> you might think you are doing yourself a favour by getting a cheap china
>> knockoff but it is a huge risk
>>
>> l.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>

From hsank at posteo.de  Tue Jan 25 19:26:50 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 18:26:50 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a3d7611f-efdc-f812-964b-73c8469cecd7@posteo.de>

Just a fun-fact:

rumours told me, in quite new designs Trinamic uses a RISC-V core for
this "32-bit internal microcontrollers" :-)

Ups, there is already a PR-Statement about this. :-o

https://www.trinamic.com/company/news/news-detail/trinamic-introduces-worlds-first-motor-driver-soc-with-integrated-risc-v-core/


Isn't it a strong buy recommendation??


On 1/25/22 7:14 PM, lkcl wrote:

> Trinamic ICs have 1/256 phase interpolation and generate proper pure sine waves, where ordinary ones have 1/8 if you are lucky and shove out domething closer to a sawtooth than a sine wave.  the difference is that Trinamic use 32bit internal microcontrollers whereas your average driver is likely an 8051.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 21:05:11 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:05:11 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60869033.6aa0HR6oby@harvey>

Hi Ferenc
Good point with the precision issue...
Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring sensor
which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact distance
(with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine adjustment?

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 6:22:25 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> "I was going to check for driver boards which exactly have high
> accuracy, considering that I'm shooting for a lambda of 500nm, and
> those stepper motors are supposed to... well step over the wafer without
> too much offset..."
> 
> I think it will be impossible to find or construct a stepper-driven
> screw with 500nm accuracy. This problem is usually solved in the way
> that is used in CD/DVD drives: a screw-shaft with a stepper motor
> provides wide-range but coarse and imprecise actuation over the entire
> range, while a short-range magnetic actuator (essentially a solenoid
> facing a permanent magnet suspended on springs) provides fine movement
> (resolution dependent only on the ADC, if any, driving the solenoid
> amplifier) over 2-3 steps distance.
> 
> In an optical drive, the analog tracking error signal is fed into the
> solenoid via an analog feedback loop, keeping the lens over the track.
> When the solenoid control signal approaches the end of its range in
> either direction, a comparator senses it and causes the stepper to step
> one forward or backward (while the movement of the lens caused by the
> stepping is canceled out by the feedback loop), bringing the solenoid
> back to the center of its range of movement.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/25/22 16:47, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > Hi
> > So I kindly asked in Chinese for the schematics of those LCOS PCBs I've
> > ordered and they were very forthcoming. I now have the schematics.
> > When it comes to stepper electronics, I hadn't made up my mind yet,
> > but I was going to check for driver boards which exactly have high
> > accuracy, considering that I'm shooting for a lambda of 500nm, and
> > those stepper motors are supposed to... well step over the wafer without
> > too much offset...
> > I've decided to not move the wafer, but instead moving the optics on top
> > of the wafer, because the thing I've ordered will be so lightweight, that
> > there won't be any vibrations, especially, considering that I'm anyway
> > stepping VERY slow...
> > I'll cross the bridge of what drivers to use, as soon as I'm there :-)
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 2:49:45 PM WET lkcl wrote:
> >> On January 25, 2022 11:55:13 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer"
> > 
> > <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >>> I'd be using some Mini PC like this one, for hooking up all the
> >>> "webcams"
> >>> (CMOS sensors) to, and then run all the software headless on there, as
> >>> well
> >>> as the Arduino(s) for the motion control:
> >>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020832871.html
> >> 
> >> do not for god's sake use RAMPS for a 3D printer controller.
> >> 
> >> consider getting a board designed by think3dprint3d adrian bowyer
> >> 
> >> https://reprap.org/wiki/Duet
> >> 
> >> https://www.duet3d.com/
> >> 
> >> they use the superb Trinamic 2.8A stepper drivers which have high
> >> accuracy
> >> and high frequency interpolation, and Adrian properly designed the PCB to
> >> actually take heat away.
> >> 
> >> you might think you are doing yourself a favour by getting a cheap china
> >> knockoff but it is a huge risk
> >> 
> >> l.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From programmerjake at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 21:38:49 2022
From: programmerjake at gmail.com (Jacob Lifshay)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:38:49 -0800
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC2bXD5M8uE-JnNTBSEFazY8X1uGcMT7wtKM0FcAV4X7zU0Fgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 10:16 lkcl <luke.leighton at gmail.com> wrote:

> Trinamic ICs have 1/256 phase interpolation and generate proper pure sine
> waves,


it may not be all that fancy, but i wrote some code many years ago that
does 1:2048 micro-stepping with dithering so the output is pretty smooth
(it's a set of 8 256-microstep ramps, with bitreverse-based dithering
(kinda like class-D amplifier output)). it uses an ATTiny85 (8-pin AVR).
Feel free to try it out if you like -- it just repeatedly slowly
accelerates/decelerates to a pretty high speed (to the point where my motor
couldn't keep up at like >500 rpm), so you'll have to adapt the code if you
want a different drive pattern. you need to continuously rapidly call
SetMotorPosition even if you aren't changing the motor position because it
uses sw to do the dithering. i remember it being almost silent at low
speeds thanks to the microstepping.

Contact me if you want a different foss license, GPLv2 was just whatever i
had lying around at the moment.

https://github.com/programmerjake/stepper-motor

Jacob
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From programmerjake at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 21:42:41 2022
From: programmerjake at gmail.com (Jacob Lifshay)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:42:41 -0800
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <60869033.6aa0HR6oby@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com> <60869033.6aa0HR6oby@harvey>
Message-ID: <CAC2bXD5qY5bk=B9yt83Lxrw6OJ1PLveWECSAv9bgUsNxcG8Z_g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 12:05 David Lanzend?rfer <leviathan at libresilicon.com>
wrote:

> Hi Ferenc
> Good point with the precision issue...

Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring sensor
> which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact distance
> (with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine adjustment?
>

it isn't off-the-shelf but you could likely easily build one based off of
laser-diode self-mixing:
https://youtu.be/MUdro-6u2Zg

Jacob

>
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From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 23:05:33 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:05:33 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <CAC2bXD5qY5bk=B9yt83Lxrw6OJ1PLveWECSAv9bgUsNxcG8Z_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com> <60869033.6aa0HR6oby@harvey>
 <CAC2bXD5qY5bk=B9yt83Lxrw6OJ1PLveWECSAv9bgUsNxcG8Z_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b5cd8bad-3f3b-351e-be47-6d1dda062ced@gmail.com>

Hello List,

I just found a laser diode with a built-in photodetector in my home. I 
will play with it and report in the upcoming days. Since these are used 
in optical drives, they are supposed to be atom-cheap. What is evident 
right now is that the diode's temperature has to be controlled to keep 
the wavelength constant.

Regards,

Ferenc

On 1/25/22 21:42, Jacob Lifshay wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 12:05 David Lanzend?rfer 
> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>
>     Hi Ferenc
>     Good point with the precision issue...
>
>     Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring sensor
>     which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact distance
>     (with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine adjustment?
>
>
> it isn't off-the-shelf but you could likely easily build one based off 
> of laser-diode self-mixing:
> https://youtu.be/MUdro-6u2Zg
>
> Jacob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 23:07:52 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:07:52 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <b5cd8bad-3f3b-351e-be47-6d1dda062ced@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <CAC2bXD5qY5bk=B9yt83Lxrw6OJ1PLveWECSAv9bgUsNxcG8Z_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <b5cd8bad-3f3b-351e-be47-6d1dda062ced@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6746170.B4E4lSm8Ut@harvey>

Hi Ferenc
Awesome! I'm looking forward to hearing your results!
I wonder how we can get a somewhat reproducible result and how we can 
calibrate the distance measuring setup...
Any idea?

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 10:05:33 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello List,
> 
> I just found a laser diode with a built-in photodetector in my home. I
> will play with it and report in the upcoming days. Since these are used
> in optical drives, they are supposed to be atom-cheap. What is evident
> right now is that the diode's temperature has to be controlled to keep
> the wavelength constant.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/25/22 21:42, Jacob Lifshay wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 12:05 David Lanzend?rfer
> > 
> > <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >     Hi Ferenc
> >     Good point with the precision issue...
> >     
> >     Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring sensor
> >     which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact distance
> >     (with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine adjustment?
> > 
> > it isn't off-the-shelf but you could likely easily build one based off
> > of laser-diode self-mixing:
> > https://youtu.be/MUdro-6u2Zg
> > 
> > Jacob
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


-- 
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Ninja Bunny.
(")_(")
Copy and paste Bunny into your
signature to help him gain world domination


From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 23:19:19 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 23:19:19 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <6746170.B4E4lSm8Ut@harvey>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey>
 <CAC2bXD5qY5bk=B9yt83Lxrw6OJ1PLveWECSAv9bgUsNxcG8Z_g@mail.gmail.com>
 <b5cd8bad-3f3b-351e-be47-6d1dda062ced@gmail.com> <6746170.B4E4lSm8Ut@harvey>
Message-ID: <299b61d9-0a6b-4037-a44c-7dfb4e7ebd83@gmail.com>

Hi

If we have a wafer that is already patterned, we need to localize the 
fiducials on on it at first. Their positions, as reported in 
interferometer increments, will define an arbitrary-unit scale across 
the wafer that depends on wavelength. In that case, not knowing lambda 
is not a problem as long as it remains the same during stepping that 
wafer. For a new wafer, I would recommend to expose and etch a 
"zero-layer" on it (like in HKUST) with a conventional mask and contact 
alignment.

Regards,

Ferenc

On 1/25/22 23:07, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi Ferenc
> Awesome! I'm looking forward to hearing your results!
> I wonder how we can get a somewhat reproducible result and how we can
> calibrate the distance measuring setup...
> Any idea?
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 10:05:33 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
>> Hello List,
>>
>> I just found a laser diode with a built-in photodetector in my home. I
>> will play with it and report in the upcoming days. Since these are used
>> in optical drives, they are supposed to be atom-cheap. What is evident
>> right now is that the diode's temperature has to be controlled to keep
>> the wavelength constant.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ferenc
>>
>> On 1/25/22 21:42, Jacob Lifshay wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 12:05 David Lanzend?rfer
>>>
>>> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>>>      Hi Ferenc
>>>      Good point with the precision issue...
>>>      
>>>      Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring sensor
>>>      which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact distance
>>>      (with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine adjustment?
>>>
>>> it isn't off-the-shelf but you could likely easily build one based off
>>> of laser-diode self-mixing:
>>> https://youtu.be/MUdro-6u2Zg
>>>
>>> Jacob
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>>> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
>

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Tue Jan 25 23:45:00 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:45:00 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <299b61d9-0a6b-4037-a44c-7dfb4e7ebd83@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <6746170.B4E4lSm8Ut@harvey>
 <299b61d9-0a6b-4037-a44c-7dfb4e7ebd83@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3240148.VdNpRadspO@harvey>

Hi
Yes. I intend to etch alignment markers.
And thanks! That solves the problem!

Cheers
-lev

On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 10:19:19 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hi
> 
> If we have a wafer that is already patterned, we need to localize the
> fiducials on on it at first. Their positions, as reported in
> interferometer increments, will define an arbitrary-unit scale across
> the wafer that depends on wavelength. In that case, not knowing lambda
> is not a problem as long as it remains the same during stepping that
> wafer. For a new wafer, I would recommend to expose and etch a
> "zero-layer" on it (like in HKUST) with a conventional mask and contact
> alignment.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> On 1/25/22 23:07, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > Hi Ferenc
> > Awesome! I'm looking forward to hearing your results!
> > I wonder how we can get a somewhat reproducible result and how we can
> > calibrate the distance measuring setup...
> > Any idea?
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 10:05:33 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> >> Hello List,
> >> 
> >> I just found a laser diode with a built-in photodetector in my home. I
> >> will play with it and report in the upcoming days. Since these are used
> >> in optical drives, they are supposed to be atom-cheap. What is evident
> >> right now is that the diode's temperature has to be controlled to keep
> >> the wavelength constant.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >> Ferenc
> >> 
> >> On 1/25/22 21:42, Jacob Lifshay wrote:
> >>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 12:05 David Lanzend?rfer
> >>> 
> >>> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >>>      Hi Ferenc
> >>>      Good point with the precision issue...
> >>>      
> >>>      Do you know of any good off-the-shelf laser distance measuring
> >>>      sensor
> >>>      which has a sufficient resolution for determining the exact
> >>>      distance
> >>>      (with an acceptable tolerance), so that we can do the fine
> >>>      adjustment?
> >>> 
> >>> it isn't off-the-shelf but you could likely easily build one based off
> >>> of laser-diode self-mixing:
> >>> https://youtu.be/MUdro-6u2Zg
> >>> 
> >>> Jacob
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >>> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
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> 
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From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Jan 26 02:39:35 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 01:39:35 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <a3d7611f-efdc-f812-964b-73c8469cecd7@posteo.de>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <F98A3B08-B428-4FB8-8DA4-37216F708A6D@gmail.com>
 <a3d7611f-efdc-f812-964b-73c8469cecd7@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxxLTCGpV+YveDsmxMAhDS5NdyrzVe+Y=LQ5oS1Q2RG_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:27 PM Hagen SANKOWSKI <hsank at posteo.de> wrote:
>
> Just a fun-fact:
>
> rumours told me, in quite new designs Trinamic uses a RISC-V core for
> this "32-bit internal microcontrollers" :-)

yes, they were one of the very first adopters, even before the standard
was ratified, because it saved them a hell of a lot of money and it's
entirely closed-off and proprietary "in-chip".

l.

From lkcl at lkcl.net  Wed Jan 26 02:41:21 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 01:41:21 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Batch loading... robot arms??
In-Reply-To: <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com>
References: <4748641.dad8pZdmPJ@harvey> <3144271.g0Kj345sI6@harvey>
 <35145F5D-DBA5-4C3B-A294-E1C3A432EEA2@gmail.com> <1982129.vNNo9UvG5I@harvey>
 <12c68823-a6f2-644f-c73e-563bff3b2252@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDxqt=uTDth=n7ELU6my0XOJvxDmQ0s0wZa8w_035ZuY6A@mail.gmail.com>

---
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On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 6:22 PM Ferenc ?ger <eegerferenc at gmail.com> wrote:

> In an optical drive, the analog tracking error signal is fed into the
> solenoid via an analog feedback loop, keeping the lens over the track.
> When the solenoid control signal approaches the end of its range in
> either direction, a comparator senses it and causes the stepper to step
> one forward or backward (while the movement of the lens caused by the
> stepping is canceled out by the feedback loop), bringing the solenoid
> back to the center of its range of movement.

ohh, don't they use some sort of 2D interference pattern for focussing?
you get 4 spots and it's easy to measure the intensity of them.
something like that, i can't remember where i heard about this, details
are fuzzy in my mind.

l.

From hsank at posteo.de  Wed Jan 26 05:58:32 2022
From: hsank at posteo.de (Hagen SANKOWSKI)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 04:58:32 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] ball screws
Message-ID: <829b10b7-22fe-ef41-844f-179d73a7a28b@posteo.de>

Hello List.

Looking around I found this video about "chasing Micrometers with the
best ball screws" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoPPwGxgWEY

Well, the use-case for this ball screws are more than the robot arm for
loading and unloading the wafers. Thinking twice I imagine ball screws also

- for the x-y table positioning on our stepper
- for the x-y probing/sensing of the die with automatic test equipment

All position problems looking quite similar. It would be nice to have a
solution solved once, used many times.


Regard,
Hagen.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Wed Jan 26 07:32:09 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 06:32:09 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
Message-ID: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>

Hi
What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo diode and
then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser diode 
beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?

Cheers
-lev


From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Wed Jan 26 07:41:09 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 06:41:09 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] ball screws
In-Reply-To: <829b10b7-22fe-ef41-844f-179d73a7a28b@posteo.de>
References: <829b10b7-22fe-ef41-844f-179d73a7a28b@posteo.de>
Message-ID: <4052865.uQZDWvmSzK@harvey>

Hi
I was already going for balls screws, I've been tinkering around at the robo
arm yesterday, figuring out all the modifications needed for loading/unloading
wafers from a cassette.
I was thinking about using a spring-solenoid[1] as Ferenc suggested, with a 
digitally controlled current controller, for instance the CN0151 [2].
I could use this solenoid for the grabbing part of the waffer, as shown in the 
video you've posted earlier, as well for the stage pins to load the wafer off 
the grabbing arm.
It might actually also work for the axis adjustment, without needing all the 
additional fancy electronics, since we anyway adjust the current over the 
solenoid based on the laser measurement, so we know better than the
controller, where our lense actually is.

Cheers
-lev

[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000128120793.html
[2] https://www.analog.com/en/design-center/reference-designs/circuits-from-the-lab/cn0151.html

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 4:58:32 AM WET Hagen SANKOWSKI wrote:
> Hello List.
> 
> Looking around I found this video about "chasing Micrometers with the
> best ball screws" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoPPwGxgWEY
> 
> Well, the use-case for this ball screws are more than the robot arm for
> loading and unloading the wafers. Thinking twice I imagine ball screws also
> 
> - for the x-y table positioning on our stepper
> - for the x-y probing/sensing of the die with automatic test equipment
> 
> All position problems looking quite similar. It would be nice to have a
> solution solved once, used many times.
> 
> 
> Regard,
> Hagen.
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From luke.leighton at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 11:24:18 2022
From: luke.leighton at gmail.com (lkcl)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:24:18 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
Message-ID: <F9619941-B82D-4986-BFA2-86B105A58237@gmail.com>



On January 26, 2022 6:32:09 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>Hi
>What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo
>diode and
>then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser
>diode 
>beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?

dc32 used 2 and got a phase differential which increased accuracy. actually, it was infrared but you get the idea.  source is somewhere, uses an ATTINY. mirror not needed, works with any reflective surface.

i saw well over a year ago some maker actually used a DVD sensor (taken from a DVD player) which did 2D phase differential, when it produces a circle instead of an oval the 4 readings in 4 quadrants are equal and you have focus.

the nice thing is, if the oval is squashed one way you are too close, squashed the other way is too far.

l.

From ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de  Wed Jan 26 11:34:10 2022
From: ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de (Ludwig Jaffe)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:34:10 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <F9619941-B82D-4986-BFA2-86B105A58237@gmail.com>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
 <F9619941-B82D-4986-BFA2-86B105A58237@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79A5E55B-2027-4B86-B6FF-A80DAFB0F693@openhardware.de>

You want to use a Position Sensitive Device.
Normally this has been used to track an object that has been illiminated by a modulated laser.
So Lens-Array -PSD.x PSD.y , Demodulation-Amps for selectable channel (15KHz to ?80KHz) - Analog Flight regulator (Takes also Gyro and Gravity) , Flap Servos to Flaps which control the thrust vector of a laser guided missile.

So here you can use the same approach to have laser guided position feedback for a handling controller.
PID is enough.

Cheers

LuJa


On January 26, 2022 11:24:18 AM GMT+01:00, lkcl <luke.leighton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>On January 26, 2022 6:32:09 AM UTC, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>>Hi
>>What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo
>>diode and
>>then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser
>>diode 
>>beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?
>
>dc32 used 2 and got a phase differential which increased accuracy. actually, it was infrared but you get the idea.  source is somewhere, uses an ATTINY. mirror not needed, works with any reflective surface.
>
>i saw well over a year ago some maker actually used a DVD sensor (taken from a DVD player) which did 2D phase differential, when it produces a circle instead of an oval the 4 readings in 4 quadrants are equal and you have focus.
>
>the nice thing is, if the oval is squashed one way you are too close, squashed the other way is too far.
>
>l.
>_______________________________________________
>Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers
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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Wed Jan 26 11:56:32 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:56:32 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <30F6B9EB-EC2F-4882-9CFE-F5DB54CADBF5@openhardware.de>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
 <30F6B9EB-EC2F-4882-9CFE-F5DB54CADBF5@openhardware.de>
Message-ID: <2569109.rD7Zx07CpC@harvey>

Hi
That's literally what I've been talking about.
The idea was to build a primitive PSD from a photo diode... Hmm...
But yeah. It's probably better to use a dedicated sensor.
I don't have endless budget tho, and the endproduct is supposed to be
somewhat affordable, so I'll check and compare prices.

Cheers
-lev

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:45:28 AM WET Ludwig Jaffe wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> https://osioptoelectronics.com/technology-corner/frequently-asked-questions/
> position-sensing-devices.aspx
> 
> Hamamatsu produces PSDs. Many photo detectors at  CERN are made by Hanamatsu
> as well as Lead Glass and other photonic stuff.
> 
> https://www.hamamatsu.com/us/en/index.html
> 
> 
> There should be something usable.
> 
> Also a laser can be modulated with different high frequencies and by
> comparing the phase between these modulated frequencies one can get the
> time of flight, hence the position. It should be possible to modulate a
> fiber transmitter for 100km monomode 1310nm fiber with a pulsecode signal
> and to decode the signal using the receiver of the fiber trx. So fiber trx
> used are quite cheap. Fiber patch cord also.
> So it is just a matter of how to control the fiber trx at low level and how
> to feet a "datastream" to it that will reveal time delays if one xors
> txdata and rxdata using fast ecl logic and some serdes approach.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Luja
> 
> On January 26, 2022 7:32:09 AM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer" 
<leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> >Hi
> >What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo diode
> >and then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser
> >diode beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?
> >
> >Cheers
> >-lev
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> >Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> >https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Wed Jan 26 12:18:01 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:18:01 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <2569109.rD7Zx07CpC@harvey>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
 <30F6B9EB-EC2F-4882-9CFE-F5DB54CADBF5@openhardware.de>
 <2569109.rD7Zx07CpC@harvey>
Message-ID: <4430815.Fcm4F38Anj@harvey>

Hi
So... Hamamatsu in general seems to be damn expensive, except for the S12443:
https://www.hamamatsu.com/resources/pdf/ssd/s12443_kmpd1137e.pdf
For this one I found a component with integrated controller online:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000859822629.html
I'll ask the vendor for a datasheet, because 30 Euros are the most affordable
I've seen so far.

Cheers
-lev

On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:56:32 AM WET David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> That's literally what I've been talking about.
> The idea was to build a primitive PSD from a photo diode... Hmm...
> But yeah. It's probably better to use a dedicated sensor.
> I don't have endless budget tho, and the endproduct is supposed to be
> somewhat affordable, so I'll check and compare prices.
> 
> Cheers
> -lev
> 
> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:45:28 AM WET Ludwig Jaffe wrote:
> > Hi all
> > 
> > https://osioptoelectronics.com/technology-corner/frequently-asked-question
> > s/ position-sensing-devices.aspx
> > 
> > Hamamatsu produces PSDs. Many photo detectors at  CERN are made by
> > Hanamatsu as well as Lead Glass and other photonic stuff.
> > 
> > https://www.hamamatsu.com/us/en/index.html
> > 
> > 
> > There should be something usable.
> > 
> > Also a laser can be modulated with different high frequencies and by
> > comparing the phase between these modulated frequencies one can get the
> > time of flight, hence the position. It should be possible to modulate a
> > fiber transmitter for 100km monomode 1310nm fiber with a pulsecode signal
> > and to decode the signal using the receiver of the fiber trx. So fiber trx
> > used are quite cheap. Fiber patch cord also.
> > So it is just a matter of how to control the fiber trx at low level and
> > how
> > to feet a "datastream" to it that will reveal time delays if one xors
> > txdata and rxdata using fast ecl logic and some serdes approach.
> > 
> > Cheers
> > 
> > Luja
> > 
> > On January 26, 2022 7:32:09 AM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer"
> 
> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> > >Hi
> > >What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo diode
> > >and then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the
> > >laser
> > >diode beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?
> > >
> > >Cheers
> > >-lev
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> > >Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> > >https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From eegerferenc at gmail.com  Wed Jan 26 13:36:13 2022
From: eegerferenc at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ferenc_=c3=89ger?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:36:13 +0100
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
Message-ID: <32456c91-8819-bf0b-7d97-c5e04d8a20a8@gmail.com>

Hello,

It is required that the PD gets a beam from the LD and the target 
simultaneously. Also, there are 2 mechanisms [1] : one depends only on 
phase interference (this is doable with separate PD and LD). It produces 
a sinewave-like output that tells the displacement but not the direction 
of movement. The other relies on that the back-reflected beam from the 
target passes trough the laser medium before reaching the PD, where it 
undergoes nonlinear mixing (inside the LD). Its output produces a 
sawtooth-like waveform, showing both displacement and direction, so it 
can be fed into a counter, that's we need. Therefore, we'll need an 
arrrangement where the LD is tapped at both ends, one facing to the 
target and the other towards the PD (that's what we have with LDs w 
integrated PD).

Regards,

Ferenc

[1] 
https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/journals/optical-engineering/volume-57/issue-05/051506/Overview-of-self-mixing-interferometer-applications-to-mechanical-engineering/10.1117/1.OE.57.5.051506.full

On 1/26/22 07:32, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> Hi
> What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo diode and
> then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser diode
> beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?
>
> Cheers
> -lev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Mon Jan 31 07:38:28 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 06:38:28 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Robot arm design
Message-ID: <273937487.f50H87xMAc@harvey>

Hi everyone
In all the designs for wafer transfer robots, I've seen so far on YouTube,
they're horizontal only, with one linear actuator for changing the z-axis.

I think however, that this design here is better, because we can also use it
to load wafers into machines, which don't have horizontal loading:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1838120

What do you think?
I just bought a 3D printer today and it should arrive in the next few days,
then I can start prototyping.

Cheers
-lev


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Jan 31 10:59:05 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:59:05 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Robot arm design
In-Reply-To: <273937487.f50H87xMAc@harvey>
References: <273937487.f50H87xMAc@harvey>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDy6h0DT2ggaN+TBZRZr2fFFya4By1szoJE_K8wxfR68gw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:38 AM David Lanzend?rfer
<leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
> In all the designs for wafer transfer robots, I've seen so far on YouTube,
> they're horizontal only, with one linear actuator for changing the z-axis.
>
> I think however, that this design here is better, because we can also use it
> to load wafers into machines, which don't have horizontal loading:
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1838120
>
> What do you think?

check the gearing, step-accuracy, and torque on the servos. TowerPro MG995
https://www.towerpro.com.tw/product/mg995/

are you happy with the possibility of the servos juddering under
load, and possibly bashing the wafer against the place it's
supposed to be delivering it?

11kg/cm might sound like a lot until you realise that the very
first of the servos might be 30 cm away from the end of the arm,
in which case that's only 11/30 kg of lifting force == 330 grams
and i'm pretty sure it'd be more than 330 grams just for the arm
itself once motors are in (the MG995 is 55g alone).

look closely at the design there and you'll see there's no gearing:
those servos are direct-drive.

l.

From leviathan at libresilicon.com  Mon Jan 31 20:39:41 2022
From: leviathan at libresilicon.com (David =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lanzend=F6rfer?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:39:41 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Robot arm design
In-Reply-To: <CAPweEDy6h0DT2ggaN+TBZRZr2fFFya4By1szoJE_K8wxfR68gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <273937487.f50H87xMAc@harvey>
 <CAPweEDy6h0DT2ggaN+TBZRZr2fFFya4By1szoJE_K8wxfR68gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4725458.BeAtFcnlUg@harvey>

Ooops... good point.
Ouch. I guess I'd have to redo that robot design from that guy, by adding some
gearing and different steppers...
Hmm... But still, do we wanna have a SCARA robot or an Articulated robot?

Cheers
-lev

On Monday, January 31, 2022 9:59:05 AM WET Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 6:38 AM David Lanzend?rfer
> 
> <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> > In all the designs for wafer transfer robots, I've seen so far on YouTube,
> > they're horizontal only, with one linear actuator for changing the z-axis.
> > 
> > I think however, that this design here is better, because we can also use
> > it to load wafers into machines, which don't have horizontal loading:
> > https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1838120
> > 
> > What do you think?
> 
> check the gearing, step-accuracy, and torque on the servos. TowerPro MG995
> https://www.towerpro.com.tw/product/mg995/
> 
> are you happy with the possibility of the servos juddering under
> load, and possibly bashing the wafer against the place it's
> supposed to be delivering it?
> 
> 11kg/cm might sound like a lot until you realise that the very
> first of the servos might be 30 cm away from the end of the arm,
> in which case that's only 11/30 kg of lifting force == 330 grams
> and i'm pretty sure it'd be more than 330 grams just for the arm
> itself once motors are in (the MG995 is 55g alone).
> 
> look closely at the design there and you'll see there's no gearing:
> those servos are direct-drive.
> 
> l.
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers


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From lkcl at lkcl.net  Mon Jan 31 21:34:15 2022
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:34:15 +0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Question: Robot arm design
In-Reply-To: <4725458.BeAtFcnlUg@harvey>
References: <273937487.f50H87xMAc@harvey>
 <CAPweEDy6h0DT2ggaN+TBZRZr2fFFya4By1szoJE_K8wxfR68gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4725458.BeAtFcnlUg@harvey>
Message-ID: <CAPweEDwCCWsd5jZLiyhCt4S_n16EnH-nkyM4VOnj8NGNDPj=Gg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:39 PM David Lanzend?rfer
<leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>
> Ooops... good point.
> Ouch. I guess I'd have to redo that robot design

yyep - don't underestimate how long that takes.

> from that guy, by adding some
> gearing and different steppers...
> Hmm... But still, do we wanna have a SCARA robot or an Articulated robot?

i leave that to you and others, both are frickin cool as far as i'm concerned :)

l.

From libre-soc at platen-software.de  Thu Jan 20 19:09:42 2022
From: libre-soc at platen-software.de (Tobias Platen)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 18:09:42 -0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] My video is done
In-Reply-To: <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com>
References: <1674959.ZA6FimBynN@harvey>
 <198EDAFA-4F4D-416F-BB4B-BF5566972773@gmail.com>
 <64c66462-36b7-ae5c-95e2-a7bbe615d0fd@gmail.com>
 <12648450.vXZtPWqHtt@harvey>
 <b3f9ce5c-6452-a475-92cd-a96db4f9a863@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1bf7ff87c7e10aa9eebfc21f80756955812b8af6.camel@platen-software.de>

On Thu, 2022-01-20 at 17:05 +0100, Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> "I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals
> and
> dangerous stuff. It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines..."
> Physical 
> processing of silicon, as any other material, is supposed to be 
> dangerous and videos in the topic are supposed to describe chemicals.
> I 
> think it is time to do what is already done for email and repository 
> hosting: fire up a mediagoblin[1] instance within the 
I have a private instance of mediagoblin, where I upload mostly music
as I am a hobbiest composer/vocasynth producer.
> libresilicon.com 
> domain.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ferenc
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaGoblin
> 
> On 1/20/22 16:50, David Lanzend?rfer wrote:
> > I had to do this for legal reasons, because I talk about chemicals
> > and
> > dangerous stuff.
> > It's the braindamaged YouTube guidelines... not my fault.
> > I'm right now syncing it to Odysee.
> > I'll tell you when it's done and post you the link
> > 
> > Cheers
> > -lev
> > 
> > On Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:11:12 PM WET Ferenc ?ger wrote:
> > > The problem is not with access control, but the way it's
> > > implemented. If
> > > we don't want to disclose in advance, just make it private and
> > > distribute the link in PM to those who it may concerns. BTW, with
> > > age
> > > restriction, it's still viewable by anyone who don't bother
> > > spraying
> > > personal information to everywhere...
> > > 
> > > On 1/20/22 13:04, lkcl wrote:
> > > > On January 20, 2022 12:00:01 PM UTC, "Ferenc ?ger" <
> > > > eegerferenc at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Hello David,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can you please make it available in a way that i don't have
> > > > > to show ID
> > > > > or creditcard to google?
> > > > that will be FOSDEM2022 which is 5-6 february, here is the
> > > > schedule:
> > > > https://fosdem.org/2022/schedule/track/libre_open_vlsi_and_fpga/
> > > > 
> > > > l.
> _______________________________________________
> Libresilicon-developers mailing list
> Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
> https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

From ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de  Wed Jan 26 11:46:39 2022
From: ludwig.jaffe_gmail at openhardware.de (Ludwig Jaffe)
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:46:39 -0000
Subject: [Libre-silicon-devel] Position measurement
In-Reply-To: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
References: <2741462.QxDSrWzlAS@harvey>
Message-ID: <30F6B9EB-EC2F-4882-9CFE-F5DB54CADBF5@openhardware.de>

Hi all

https://osioptoelectronics.com/technology-corner/frequently-asked-questions/position-sensing-devices.aspx

Hamamatsu produces PSDs. Many photo detectors at  CERN are made by Hanamatsu as well as Lead Glass and other photonic stuff.

https://www.hamamatsu.com/us/en/index.html


There should be something usable.

Also a laser can be modulated with different high frequencies and by comparing the phase between these modulated frequencies one can get the time of flight, hence the position.
It should be possible to modulate a fiber transmitter for 100km monomode 1310nm fiber with a pulsecode signal and to decode the signal using the receiver of the fiber trx.
So fiber trx used are quite cheap. Fiber patch cord also.
So it is just a matter of how to control the fiber trx at low level and how to feet a "datastream" to it that will reveal time delays if one xors txdata and rxdata using fast ecl logic and some serdes approach.

Cheers

Luja

On January 26, 2022 7:32:09 AM GMT+01:00, "David Lanzend?rfer" <leviathan at libresilicon.com> wrote:
>Hi
>What about just buying a new cheap Chinese laser diode and a photo diode and
>then putting a mirror onto the lense carrier, which reflects the laser diode 
>beam back to the photo diode next to the laser diode?
>
>Cheers
>-lev
>
>_______________________________________________
>Libresilicon-developers mailing list
>Libresilicon-developers at list.libresilicon.com
>https://list.libresilicon.com/mailman/listinfo/libresilicon-developers

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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